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2023 frame issues

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#61 ·
Mine is off too. Bought 12/16. I thought it looked weird at the dealership but told myself it was an illusion caused by the steering damper. Looking at it at home later I thought the fork was twisted? Now I've stumbled upon this thread... Everything else works fine so far. I'll deal with this after the holidays.
 
#63 ·
I went to a dealer this week to buy a 23 PAS. I immediately noticed the frame issue. Screen was right and down. Looked closer it was absolutely a result of the mounting points for the front end/fairing. I showed the salesman and he brought it to service. A tech and manager looked at it, agreed its off, and said there's no fix from Harley. I looked at a used 22 PAS and it didn't have the issue. I won't go into the other issues on this thread. Needless to say, I didn't buy a PAS this week.
 
#66 ·
diesel101 said:
Just curious if anyone else has had frame issues with their 2023? I brought mine home and noticed the monitor was slightly crooked after further inspection found the whole front fairing,windshiled,headlight assembly was shifted to one side. The dealership found the frame is manufactured wrong, the neck tube was misaligned when welded.
They have another new 2023 sitting on the showroom floor that is the same way. If you stand behind or in front of the bike you can tell the windshield is off to one side.
Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this or noticed this?
Click to expand...
I have the same issue. I had mine delivered from the dealership while I was at work and never sat on it. I didn’t get to ride it for another week and got it out to ride down the road just a bit. I immediately could tell something was off about it and parked it. While researching online I lucked upon this page and then called my dealer. They acted like they haven’t heard of the issue and I expressed my concern that it was hard to believe that someone there didn’t throw a leg over the bike and see this. They asked if I could bring it back which I did. I made sure to trailer it so it would at least still show only 13 miles on the bike. Now they’ve had it for a week and a half and still waiting on a master tech to come look at it. From what I’m reading online you’d think by now that Harley would know that this is an issue and know what needs to be replaced and/or repaired so we don’t have to wait weeks before getting our bikes back. Hopefully I have the same luck as you Dusak. I’ll keep you updated.
 

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#67 ·
Code said:
My Service department just called me, Harley is shipping a new upper frame and brackets under warranty. They said it is now a known issue for a portion of the 2023 production.
Click to expand...
Well, the local Service Department installed the new upper frame section. I went to pick up the bike last week, and....IT IS STILL misaligned. After looking over the bike carefully and pulling off the front fairing clip, it is obvious. THE NEW FRAME SECTION HAS THE SAME LOWER NECK TAB DEFECT. It is a manufacturing defect. I went into the showroom and looked at all the Pan Ams they had. All the 2023 had the same defect, and the new 2024. Harley has obviously not addressed the manufacturing line; the neck tabs are not aligned. My bike was a York, PA produced bike.

When returning it to the service department I was talking with the Service Writer who was on the phone with Harley Customer Care about my problem. I overheard some of the conversation and talked with him about it a bit. The Customer Care rep said they had just left a corporate meeting about this very frame issue, and Harley knows they have a problem. They talked about the problem turning into a huge recall for all these bikes, and it was going to be a mess. I left the bike with service department because the customer care rep wasn't sure what the next course of action would be, and wanted detailed pictures of the bike. That was Saturday, this morning, Tuesday I get a call informing me they are sending out a tech from Spokane, Washington to evaluate the bike. I have a strong intuition the Tech is going to attempt to shim and contort the the fairing into alignment. This is not a fix of the defect, just a temporary band-aid. We will see. I am not going to accept the bike until the frame tab is fixed, I would recommend everyone else do the same.

Harley is going to avoid this recall, and duck the responsibility like they did with the defective Twin-Cam spring loaded cam chain tensioners that destroyed many engines. That was a design defect. This frame issue is a manufacturing defect, plan and simple. I am getting ahead of myself a bit, but I see where this is going. The conversation at corporate about the issue, and sending a tech from Washington instead of a Quality Assurance Rep from York, PA is the writing on the wall. Recall 6+ months of product, or try to appease the persistent few who won't accept a defect product. I wonder if the new "CVO" PA will have the same defect?

To be continued.....
 
#68 ·
Sorry to hear about this, stand by your guns and make HD fix it correctly. Harley has known about this problem for a long time. I think the reason you don't see any 24 Pan America's on the show room floors yet is because of the frame issue.
 
#69 ·
Code said:
Well, the local Service Department installed the new upper frame section. I went to pick up the bike last week, and....IT IS STILL misaligned. After looking over the bike carefully and pulling off the front fairing clip, it is obvious. THE NEW FRAME SECTION HAS THE SAME LOWER NECK TAB DEFECT. It is a manufacturing defect. I went into the showroom and looked at all the Pan Ams they had. All the 2023 had the same defect, and the new 2024. Harley has obviously not addressed the manufacturing line; the neck tabs are not aligned. My bike was a York, PA produced bike.

When returning it to the service department I was talking with the Service Writer who was on the phone with Harley Customer Care about my problem. I overheard some of the conversation and talked with him about it a bit. The Customer Care rep said they had just left a corporate meeting about this very frame issue, and Harley knows they have a problem. They talked about the problem turning into a huge recall for all these bikes, and it was going to be a mess. I left the bike with service department because the customer care rep wasn't sure what the next course of action would be, and wanted detailed pictures of the bike. That was Saturday, this morning, Tuesday I get a call informing me they are sending out a tech from Spokane, Washington to evaluate the bike. I have a strong intuition the Tech is going to attempt to shim and contort the the fairing into alignment. This is not a fix of the defect, just a temporary band-aid. We will see. I am not going to accept the bike until the frame tab is fixed, I would recommend everyone else do the same.

Harley is going to avoid this recall, and duck the responsibility like they did with the defective Twin-Cam spring loaded cam chain tensioners that destroyed many engines. That was a design defect. This frame issue is a manufacturing defect, plan and simple. I am getting ahead of myself a bit, but I see where this is going. The conversation at corporate about the issue, and sending a tech from Washington instead of a Quality Assurance Rep from York, PA is the writing on the wall. Recall 6+ months of product, or try to appease the persistent few who won't accept a defect product. I wonder if the new "CVO" PA will have the same defect?

To be continued.....
Click to expand...
Imagine paying $28k Li’s aka $40k out the door in my area for a pan am with a crooked front fairing—- but the paint is nice lol.
I am of the opinion I’d almost rather have a misaligned fairing that few would notice than take it back to sit forever and be ripped down and possibly not even fixed.
We’ll see how Harley handles it.
 
#70 ·
Code said:
Well, the local Service Department installed the new upper frame section. I went to pick up the bike last week, and....IT IS STILL misaligned. After looking over the bike carefully and pulling off the front fairing clip, it is obvious. THE NEW FRAME SECTION HAS THE SAME LOWER NECK TAB DEFECT. It is a manufacturing defect. I went into the showroom and looked at all the Pan Ams they had. All the 2023 had the same defect, and the new 2024. Harley has obviously not addressed the manufacturing line; the neck tabs are not aligned. My bike was a York, PA produced bike.

When returning it to the service department I was talking with the Service Writer who was on the phone with Harley Customer Care about my problem. I overheard some of the conversation and talked with him about it a bit. The Customer Care rep said they had just left a corporate meeting about this very frame issue, and Harley knows they have a problem. They talked about the problem turning into a huge recall for all these bikes, and it was going to be a mess. I left the bike with service department because the customer care rep wasn't sure what the next course of action would be, and wanted detailed pictures of the bike. That was Saturday, this morning, Tuesday I get a call informing me they are sending out a tech from Spokane, Washington to evaluate the bike. I have a strong intuition the Tech is going to attempt to shim and contort the the fairing into alignment. This is not a fix of the defect, just a temporary band-aid. We will see. I am not going to accept the bike until the frame tab is fixed, I would recommend everyone else do the same.

Harley is going to avoid this recall, and duck the responsibility like they did with the defective Twin-Cam spring loaded cam chain tensioners that destroyed many engines. That was a design defect. This frame issue is a manufacturing defect, plan and simple. I am getting ahead of myself a bit, but I see where this is going. The conversation at corporate about the issue, and sending a tech from Washington instead of a Quality Assurance Rep from York, PA is the writing on the wall. Recall 6+ months of product, or try to appease the persistent few who won't accept a defect product. I wonder if the new "CVO" PA will have the same defect?

To be continued.....
Click to expand...
The tech took the front section apart and reassembled it, and it is now straight. There is a slight bias to the right, but very difficult to tell. I do believe the lower neck tab is slightly out of alignment. The first frame section was worse; the replacement frame corrected 50-70% of the misalignment I originally had, reassembling the entire fairing fixed most of the issue. I discussed putting yet another frame on the motorcycle, but he was legitimately concerned that the next frame Harley sent out may be worse than the one on there. Which, indicates that the upper frame quality control is very suspect. Do I want it perfectly straight? Yes. Is it a production line product? Yes. I deicide to take it so I can ride it, when the issue picks up more steam, as it will, all the bikes in the showroom have the same problem, and two people were dropping off bikes for the issue as I was there. If they actually put out a bulletin on the issue I'll take it back again.
 
#71 ·
You can only hope that they corrected the issue for '24. I am hoping to buy one in Alpine Green at the end of this year as they updated the charging system, using the softail battery (225 cca vs 315 cca) and the ecms and wiring harnesses have all new part nos that aren't superseding as the previous iterations were. If the frame is properly aligned for the '24 I'll pull the trigger. Otherwise I'll continue to ride my Versys 1000 until the PanAm doesn't leave the factory with defects. I would advise all PanAm owners with the frame issue contact the NHTSA about their bent frames (and use that language when describing the issue) as well as document your conversations with Harley through emails (if verbal write follow up email recapping what was discussed "As we discussed...") and provide that to NHTSA as well. If enough owners squak the feds will get involved and you will see a recall issued as well as new bikes coming off the line correctly.
 
#72 · (Edited)
diesel101 said:
Just curious if anyone else has had frame issues with their 2023? I brought mine home and noticed the monitor was slightly crooked after further inspection found the whole front fairing,windshiled,headlight assembly was shifted to one side. The dealership found the frame is manufactured wrong, the neck tube was misaligned when welded.
They have another new 2023 sitting on the showroom floor that is the same way. If you stand behind or in front of the bike you can tell the windshield is off to one side.
Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this or noticed this?
Click to expand...
Yep, I just bought in the 2023 that I got to ride for a couple of hours, noticed that it was crabbing, brought it back to the dealer and it's been there over a week. Yesterday they verified it needs a new front subframe. The dealer is pretty faultless in this, but Harley-Davidson should not be produced and crap like this. I'm very worried that my brand new bike has to be disassembled and put back together to this extent.

I just filled out a report on my motorcycle with the NHTSA. I suggested that it is unsafe to have a motorcycle that is tracking incorrectly and has an inherent misaligned frame.

I encourage anybody else with this issue to do the same. If they get enough, they're going to force Harley to do a recall.
 
#73 ·
DetroitDan said:
Yep, I just bought in the 2023 that I got to ride for a couple of hours, noticed that it was crabbing, brought it back to the dealer and it's been there over a week. Yesterday they verified it needs a new front subframe. The dealer is pretty faultless in this, but Harley-Davidson should not be produced and crap like this. I'm very worried that my brand new bike has to be disassembled and put back together to this extent.

I just filled out a report on my motorcycle with the NHTSA. I suggested that it is unsafe to have a motorcycle that is tracking incorrectly and has an inherent misaligned frame.

I encourage anybody else with this issue to do the same. If they get enough, they're going to force Harley to do a recall.
Click to expand...
What is "crabbing"? Is that when you have to essentially turn the wheel a bit (from center) to make the bike ride straight ahead?
 
#74 ·
2023DG said:
What is "crabbing"? Is that when you have to essentially turn the wheel a bit (from center) to make the bike ride straight ahead?
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. It's also called "dog legging". The effect is also caused by the back wheel being out of alignment. When I dropped it off, I thought that was the cause of the problem. Right now, I am not sure if it was actually crabbing, or if it just seemed like it because of the crooked front frame.
 
#76 ·
Dusak said:
I just picked up my new 2023 PAS 3 weeks ago.... After delivery and during the ride home I couldn't believe how bad the dash was cocked to the right and down! (will post pics). Looking at the front of the bike... OMG Stevie Wonder couldn't have missed this. I Immediately contacted the dealer when I got home and was told to bring back the following week to resolve the frame / bracket or whatever issue, along with an antifreeze leak that was discovered on the showroom floor and MORE.... but let's stay on topic....I'm very ..... lets say disappointed.

No doubt the frame piece that the main bracket that holds the entire front instrumentation, front fairing, headlight, etc, is welded way! off center. (To the right and down) The solution according to the Pan America Tech is a new bracket that will compensate the "mistake" (not his words but mine). I looked at another new 2023 PAS on the showroom floor and same issue, but not quite as bad as mine. Bracket ordered but this is not good... Bike is at dealer for the oil cooler coolant hose issue in which an oversized hose was installed with a crimp clamp that was too big on a nipple that was too small. Coolant has leaked 8oz just setting in my garage.
Thank you for your post letting me know I'm not the only one!
Dan
Click to expand...
Same issue on my 2023 PanAm... dealer here adjusted and I still have to pick it up. They stated that they had to charge due to it not being covered by the factory. I began to argue my case over the phone then said we would discuss when I get in. Not going to pay the hours on this one, will stand my ground to see what happens.... was also told by the service writer that all the PanAms are the same way and that the factory says they are within tolerance. Piss Poor finish work for sure, they had to pull the whole front end apart to correct. Concerned what others are saying about the welds on the frame and will dig deeper into this subject.... stay tuned.
 
#77 ·
Dusak said:
Here are my before and after pictures.... This was accomplished by my dealers Pan America Tech and a Harley rep that flew out specifically to repair this issue. They did not install a new front frame but added a new bracket. It took them about 4 hours to adjust to get an almost perfect result. They also repaired the crooked headlight and crash bar.
You need to call Harley customer service and file a complaint. I used the term "Bent Frame" and that I was concerned with my safety. Also have your dealer to call as well. My dealer was relentless. They do know how to fix this!
If you would like to discuss PM me. I would be happy to share my experience.
Dan
Click to expand...
Many thanks for all the detail you offered on your experience!!! Just got a call from the dealer about their correcting this issue as well and they loaded my 1000mi checkup with some hours they expect me to pay... saying that Harley does not cover this repair and that it is "within tolerance".... not in my book on a $20k+ toy purchase. Think BMW puts out anything like this? NOPE. I do believe this PanAm product is amazing since riding it on a few trips but will definitely fight this one at the dealer and mfgr level as you noted. Thank you Thank you Thank you for the post here Dusak!

In the meantime, more miles will be had on the Streetglide until this is settled. I have time!
 
#78 ·
KINGPIN.OFFICIAL said:
Think BMW puts out anything like this? NOPE.
Click to expand...
Nah, they stick to the serious shit.

www.rideapart.com

Recall: All 2019-2023 BMW R 1250 GS May Have Gearbox Input Shaft Break

BMW North America issued a recall for all 2019 through 2023 R 1250 GS, R 1250 GS Adventure, and R 1250 RTP bikes due to the risk of a broken gearbox input shaft
www.rideapart.com www.rideapart.com
.

My 2020 BMW GS was down for four months. I argued with the dealer for weeks and finally took a loss of many thousands of dollars to get them to buy it back. Even then, they tried to deduct the cost of the parts it need needed from their offer! It lost an ECM, a fuel pump, two batteries and an input shaft. The input shaft was the deal breaker. The graphics on the right side of the tank were also mis-postioned a full 1.5" higher than the left. No one ever offered me a fix for that. Except for the graphics, The dealer tried to blame each one on me. Everything from "aggressive riding" to "damage from a pressure washer" (never even washed the damn thing). There was this smug attitude that the bike was perfect and I must be doing something wrong every time I went. The wild part is that GS owners don't head to the forums with every issue, (or the moderators keep the negative shit in check) so I felt like maybe I was the only one with problems. It wasn't until after I got rid of the bike that I learned that I was just one of many with similar issues.

I pack the miles on. I've got over 30 thousand on my 21 Pan America . It hasn't been perfect but it has been (for me anyway), a million times better than MY GS was.

All bikes have problems to some extent. The newer the bike, the more issues it has, IMHO. Putting a cam chain tensioner and a "Thermo bob" on a brand new Kawasaki KLR, being afraid to ride my Honda ST1300 because people got killed when a bunch of them had a "death wobble" or walking 20 miles in the height of Covid because my brand new GS1250 ruptured an input shaft. The seriousness of the issue is chosen by social media. The reports you read become your perception of reality.

The BMW dealer would not explain or even comment on the tank graphics being a "quality control issue". But they were, just not as bad as a "Frame issue" (aka mis-postioned fairing mounting tab).
 
#79 ·
Tobba611 said:
Nah, they stick to the serious shit.

www.rideapart.com

Recall: All 2019-2023 BMW R 1250 GS May Have Gearbox Input Shaft Break

BMW North America issued a recall for all 2019 through 2023 R 1250 GS, R 1250 GS Adventure, and R 1250 RTP bikes due to the risk of a broken gearbox input shaft
www.rideapart.com www.rideapart.com
.

My 2020 BMW GS was down for four months. I argued with the dealer for weeks and finally took a loss of many thousands of dollars to get them to buy it back. Even then, they tried to deduct the cost of the parts it need needed from their offer! It lost an ECM, a fuel pump, two batteries and an input shaft. The input shaft was the deal breaker. The graphics on the right side of the tank were also mis-postioned a full 1.5" higher than the left. No one ever offered me a fix for that. Except for the graphics, The dealer tried to blame each one on me. Everything from "aggressive riding" to "damage from a pressure washer" (never even washed the damn thing). There was this smug attitude that the bike was perfect and I must be doing something wrong every time I went. The wild part is that GS owners don't head to the forums with every issue, (or the moderators keep the negative shit in check) so I felt like maybe I was the only one with problems. It wasn't until after I got rid of the bike that I learned that I was just one of many with similar issues.

I pack the miles on. I've got over 30 thousand on my 21 Pan America . It hasn't been perfect but it has been (for me anyway), a million times better than MY GS was.

All bikes have problems to some extent. The newer the bike, the more issues it has, IMHO. Putting a cam chain tensioner and a "Thermo bob" on a brand new Kawasaki KLR, being afraid to ride my Honda ST1300 because people got killed when a bunch of them had a "death wobble" or walking 20 miles in the height of Covid because my brand new GS1250 ruptured an input shaft. The seriousness of the issue is chosen by social media. The reports you read become your perception of reality.

The BMW dealer would not explain or even comment on the tank graphics being a "quality control issue". But they were, just not as bad as a "Frame issue" (aka mis-postioned fairing mounting tab).
Click to expand...

Well, I stand corrected! ha!
 
#80 ·
diesel101 said:
They put the new "updated" bracket on mine too, it did straighten out the screen but the rest of the front fairing is still crooked on mine.
Click to expand...
Just spoke with HD customer care and kicked off a case number with them on this crooked bung set on the head tube that holds the front nacelle and parts. HD says they have no knowledge of the issue.... and I stated that I understand that they don't want to share too much on this as it is a safety issue (headlight aim way off, possible vertigo issues, etc.) and they dont want to trigger a recall. I get it as we do service for a manufacturer and at all costs, no manufacturer wants a recall to be forced. BUT... I did state that this is a well documented issue, the details behind what is believed to be the cause and two different offerings by HD on other cases. Frame replacement and this "bracket" kit. The bracket kit makes total sense and is the lesser costly fix for sure. Does anyone have the part number of this "BRACKET KIT" that can post it so I have a bit more to add to my case with HD?

Also, if the BRACKED KIT has a part number from HD, others with the same issue can reference this kit number and get theirs repaired without jumping thru all the hoops.

Thank you everyone! LOVE the PanAm so far except for this issue. Time will tell if I experience any of the other issues people are experiencing.
 
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