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tvond

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So far this board has been great at getting some great info and advice on the PA and related bikes. And i'm all for talking about issues with the bike and how they are getting resolved. But these troll threads are a huge turnoff. "Do not buy a harley" and "Harley is going to cancel the PA" are just latest examples of these trash posts. And the worst part is I found myself replying. So, i'm part of the problem and that stops today.

I post this as i know the admins wont lock them, which they should, or at least consolidate them into one troll thread. We as posters in good faith should not give the trolls the attention they want. Join me! Anyway, off the soapbox. Just my 2c.
 
I've been part of the problem too. WE are keeping the troll posts at the top of the list, front and center for everyone to see first. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy guy.. Maybe that's was what the trolls want. I've seen pics of worn out internal components, laying on a dirty garage floor from (allegedly) a warrantied PA. I've seen entire posts with concatenations of every single problem I've ever heard of, all happening on a single bike with less than 3000 miles on it. I've read about "belts slipping" (not sh!t), jiffy stands breaking the bottom of engines open and heard stories of blistered legs from the heat the bike supposedly gives off. Maybe all this is 100 percent true but these have to be an assembly of the most unlucky dudes I've ever heard of. My favorite wasn't this site but a youtube video of some guy swearing Harley was going to go out of business because of poor choices of CVO paint schemes.

It's wild how someone will join the forum and post about some crazy failure using poor grammar and improper nomenclature and then never post again. But of course WE as regular users of the site, jump on, trying to help and end up on wild tangents. I can imagine someone who doesn't even own the bike, sitting back laughing at us.

My statement from another thread:

The only real issue I had with my very early 2021 was an ignition coil. I asked for "all of the updates" when they did the two recalls and I got those. I replaced my battery because of random faults with starting and ARH, which all seemed to be related to low voltage, been fine for nearly two years. I modified my lower radiator hose because it looked too close.. Just standard maintenance stuff that I've done to nearly every bike I've owned. I watched the TSB's, and did those when I could (tighten this, check that) Not as hard and installing a "doohickey" or a "thermo-bob" on a brand new KLR 650 (google those LOL) or as serious as the "Pan weave", that I and thousands of other riders raised hell about (and some died because of) on a Honda ST1300 (google that LOL). Even my mighty 2018 GS 1250 had more issues than my PA, and it got replaced because of a part that couldn't be had for 18 weeks. I haven't had anywhere near the problems I see other people going through, or posting about. My issues weren't that serious, when compared to other PA owners- although they were somehow the same. My engine and clutch have been fine for over 30,000 miles, but I did wear out two chains and one set of sprockets. I guess I'm super lucky...

I am still an active member of several forums for bikes I own or have owned- KLR 650, GS1250, Yamaha FZ1, and even some car forums. But in all these forums, I have never seen users completely flaming the bike and the MOCO as a whole, as often like they do here. Even when there are more serious and/or more frequent problems with the subjects of those forums.

Maybe using forums (especially Harley forums) as a place for useful insight and helpful information isn't practical. Maybe it's more of an outlet for "entertainment only" now.
 
Change is difficult for some people. And HD did a pretty dramatic shift by entering this segment of the market. People are people when it comes to change - sky is falling mentality.

When HD moved from the EVO to TC people had a crap hemorrhage. When TC was replaced with the M8 some of the same rhetoric resurfaced.

People need to chillax. Ride what you want to ride. But accept change is happening with or without us older folks. Demographics are changing, technology is changing, industry standards are changing. Getting all wind up serves no purpose. Let people have there 2 mins of fame and hyperventilate over the keyboard. 😂🤣 If it is senseless dribble, don't give it oxygen by responding
 
We do block some of the trolls, I just find it hard to block a troll that has sparked conversation and posts from all of us, we have discussed the trolls on the mods private page and Im ok with it as long as its not disrespectful and sparks conversations.
If things do get disrespectful and rules are broken then we will step in.
If we dont catch someone being disrespectful, please contact us.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Agreed, its a tough call when they aren't being disrespectful.. But i do think there should be a master "bitching and moaning" thread that consolidates threads that are generalized like those ones i mentioned. If its a thread with someone detailing issues they've had, or how long they've waited for parts or service depts, then yes.. absolutely keep it as is. But keeping those general "The Pan Am sucks!" threads sets a bad precedent. Then trolls will feel compelled to log on here and start a thread like "hey, harleys suck!! " or "ADV bikes are dumb!" . And because they know we'll take the bait it will turn into a super popular thread with lots of views.

So what i'm saying is, im' done commenting on those, even if there are folks in the thread that have valid/interesting things to say. I think they do nothing but take away from what this board is supposed to be about.
 
I was thinking beside a bitching thread. We need a thread about when dealers and even the Motor Company did the right thing or went above and beyond. I always treated the people at my dealership with respect and it payed off. It’s a shame that some of the people that bought the early PA had issues like I had. I let the process play out and in the end I was very happy with the results. We need to teach each other how to work the system to get the service and repairs done.
 
I totally agree with that!
My recommendation is always to make friends with the dealer, parts guy and service manager.
I have known every tech that works on my bikes. Not just the PAS.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I totally agree with that!
My recommendation is always to make friends with the dealer, parts guy and service manager.
I have known every tech that works on my bikes. Not just the PAS.
I agree. I bought my PA from a smaller HD dealer and they're generally curious and interested in the PA. The parts dept alone has been amazing dealing with my sport bag issues (they helped fight HD corp on a warrenty issue). Maybe a master "good dealers" thread as well!
 
I bought from a small family business in southern Manitoba. Rudy, the owner, has been in the business for about 50 plus years. In his late 70s and still filled with passion for HD products. His kids are all in the business now as well. You become family there. Just awesome people. Great service. Dealership makes ALL the difference in experience.
 
I agree that the dealer can really make a difference in your ownership experience. I've owned few V-Rods in my life... When I bought my '21 PAS in May of '21, it was their demo bike. My sales guy went to the Harley rollout experience, and was genuinely passionate about it. Great buying experience.

Fast forward to first service, and it went downhill from there. Fortunately my issues have been mostly limited to software, but getting them to update my bike was a PITA. What finally made me stop going to them was the two year brake service. I called to get it scheduled since the icon popped up on my screen, and first was quoted their generic price, then the advisor said, "Wait, I think PAs cost more", and came back with another $130 tacked on, with no good explanation. Took it to a dealer another 20 miles away, and paid about half of what they quoted me.

I love my PAS. It's not perfect (for the love of God, I want to meet the engineer that decided the air filter should sit under the tank...) but it makes me smile every time I ride it. I will ignore all the trolls and haters as long as I can ride, for Harley had the balls to create this bike.
 
I've been part of the problem too. WE are keeping the troll posts at the top of the list, front and center for everyone to see first. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy guy.. Maybe that's was what the trolls want. I've seen pics of worn out internal components, laying on a dirty garage floor from (allegedly) a warrantied PA. I've seen entire posts with concatenations of every single problem I've ever heard of, all happening on a single bike with less than 3000 miles on it. I've read about "belts slipping" (not sh!t), jiffy stands breaking the bottom of engines open and heard stories of blistered legs from the heat the bike supposedly gives off. Maybe all this is 100 percent true but these have to be an assembly of the most unlucky dudes I've ever heard of. My favorite wasn't this site but a youtube video of some guy swearing Harley was going to go out of business because of poor choices of CVO paint schemes.

It's wild how someone will join the forum and post about some crazy failure using poor grammar and improper nomenclature and then never post again. But of course WE as regular users of the site, jump on, trying to help and end up on wild tangents. I can imagine someone who doesn't even own the bike, sitting back laughing at us.

My statement from another thread:

The only real issue I had with my very early 2021 was an ignition coil. I asked for "all of the updates" when they did the two recalls and I got those. I replaced my battery because of random faults with starting and ARH, which all seemed to be related to low voltage, been fine for nearly two years. I modified my lower radiator hose because it looked too close.. Just standard maintenance stuff that I've done to nearly every bike I've owned. I watched the TSB's, and did those when I could (tighten this, check that) Not as hard and installing a "doohickey" or a "thermo-bob" on a brand new KLR 650 (google those LOL) or as serious as the "Pan weave", that I and thousands of other riders raised hell about (and some died because of) on a Honda ST1300 (google that LOL). Even my mighty 2018 GS 1250 had more issues than my PA, and it got replaced because of a part that couldn't be had for 18 weeks. I haven't had anywhere near the problems I see other people going through, or posting about. My issues weren't that serious, when compared to other PA owners- although they were somehow the same. My engine and clutch have been fine for over 30,000 miles, but I did wear out two chains and one set of sprockets. I guess I'm super lucky...

I am still an active member of several forums for bikes I own or have owned- KLR 650, GS1250, Yamaha FZ1, and even some car forums. But in all these forums, I have never seen users completely flaming the bike and the MOCO as a whole, as often like they do here. Even when there are more serious and/or more frequent problems with the subjects of those forums.

Maybe using forums (especially Harley forums) as a place for useful insight and helpful information isn't practical. Maybe it's more of an outlet for "entertainment only" now.
Ok
 
OK, here goes. I’m not a troll, just a VERY unhappy’21 PAS owner. I have been on this forum since July 21. This is my 13 th motorcycle and 6th Harley that I have owned. This is by far the worst bike I have ever owned. I have complained so much that other forum members told me to shut up about the same problems. For an expensive premium product, my particular bike sucks. If you are one of the lucky ones that hasn’t had any problems, great! Aside from the usual stuff that they said would break ( heat shield, radiator hose) my stator quit at 6000 miles. Why? Warranty coverage is fine, but parts are back ordered. My dealer is fantastic, it’s the MoCo that has let me down. Fuel pumps, ECMs quit Regularly. Why? None of that stuff ever broke on any other bike that I have owned. I have been stranded in the forest with no cell service because my bike wouldn’t restart after a piss. How about the lame cell connected NAV. Might as well buy a Garmin.
I don’t care if you guys are sick of the complaining, start a thread for bitching. I also agree that this bike will go away, low sales, high price, and well known reliability issues. Nobody is talking about the Nightster and Sportster S. Equally lame bikes that are overpriced and not selling. Any CVO model is just an overpriced paint job.
 
OK, here goes. I’m not a troll, just a VERY unhappy’21 PAS owner. I have been on this forum since July 21. This is my 13 th motorcycle and 6th Harley that I have owned. This is by far the worst bike I have ever owned. I have complained so much that other forum members told me to shut up about the same problems. For an expensive premium product, my particular bike sucks. If you are one of the lucky ones that hasn’t had any problems, great! Aside from the usual stuff that they said would break ( heat shield, radiator hose) my stator quit at 6000 miles. Why? Warranty coverage is fine, but parts are back ordered. My dealer is fantastic, it’s the MoCo that has let me down. Fuel pumps, ECMs quit Regularly. Why? None of that stuff ever broke on any other bike that I have owned. I have been stranded in the forest with no cell service because my bike wouldn’t restart after a piss. How about the lame cell connected NAV. Might as well buy a Garmin.
I don’t care if you guys are sick of the complaining, start a thread for bitching. I also agree that this bike will go away, low sales, high price, and well known reliability issues. Nobody is talking about the Nightster and Sportster S. Equally lame bikes that are overpriced and not selling. Any CVO model is just an overpriced paint job.
NoID, your not a troll.
We had a few that joined all within a day of each other with nothing to contribute and all had the same gripe. Just complaining to to get guys worked up. Kinda like that guy at work that leaves his trash in the brake room and calls HR about the brake room beeing a mess.

I used your experience with the Pan Am, to gide me with mine before I made my purchase.
We all know the PAs have issues and HD could and should have done things differently, but to make 3 accounts just to bash the bike with all the clichés, thats a troll.
 
I post this as i know the admins wont lock them, which they should, or at least consolidate them into one troll thread. We as posters in good faith should not give the trolls the attention they want. Join me! Anyway, off the soapbox. Just my 2c.
Agreed, its a tough call when they aren't being disrespectful.. But i do think there should be a master "bitching and moaning" thread that consolidates threads that are generalized like those ones i mentioned. If its a thread with someone detailing issues they've had, or how long they've waited for parts or service depts, then yes.. absolutely keep it as is. But keeping those general "The Pan Am sucks!" threads sets a bad precedent. Then trolls will feel compelled to log on here and start a thread like "hey, harleys suck!! " or "ADV bikes are dumb!" . And because they know we'll take the bait it will turn into a super popular thread with lots of views.

So what i'm saying is, im' done commenting on those, even if there are folks in the thread that have valid/interesting things to say. I think they do nothing but take away from what this board is supposed to be about.
Social forums exist to enable peer to peer discussion about their personal opinions on whatever that forum is generally created for (albeit bikes or cooking). Wanting to ban posts because they don't align with your opinion, in my eyes, is disrespectful; yet you suggest this is what us Admins should do and then you admit to contributing to the kind of behaviour you dislike; furthermore want a general negative "bitch thread". Seems like you created what you preached you don't want and then you want someone else (admins) to solve your 1st World Problem mental dilemna that you love to hate. Not gonna happen.

If you don't like a topic - don't read it. Have nothing you wish to comment on a topic? Don't reply. But don't be part of the problem and then suggest no one else should be subjected to your own words and that someone else should do something about your own behaviour. I guess this reply, ironically, is doing just the latter; so you got what you wanted now?

If anyone else has read this far - if any Member has broken the rules, please report the post and any of the Mod Squad will deal with it accordingly. Read the rules. Reporting posts because you don't agree with an opinion has been and will be ignored.

Have a good Sunday everyone.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Well, sounds like i touched a nerve here. Well let me address you accusations since its clear you arent happy with my opinions on the matter.

First off, I never said anything should be "banned". That's your words. I said, in my opinion, these threads should be locked or consolidated somehow. Spam is spam and I think thats what these threads are. I just think its starting to get in the way of the overall idea of this message board. And that I think theres ways to control it before it really ruins this board. Many message boards i've been part of will do this (not just moto forums), especially if its a topic thats already been discussed ad nauseam. Do we need 10 posts that have no detail and lots of speculation that say the PA is a good/bad bike? Or even 20 new posts asking "whats the best exhaust?" Thats all I'm saying, if you want to let the trolls take over.. sure go for it. You're the admin and its your call.

Also, you mention that i'm perpetuating the problem. Well if you read my post, I acknowledged that fact. You'll notice i started the thread in the "off topic lounge", which isn't meant for getting in the way of what we're all here for. I did this because i wanted to get out of the way of people looking for motorcycle specific stuff and not muddy those waters. I was careful not to break any forum rules.

At the end of the day, we'll have to agree to disagee on this subject. I was just trying to rally the community here to not take the bait on those spam threads. I do want this place to succeed so thats why I posted in the first place.

As i said before "just my 2c". Thats all i have to say on this subject.
 
I was thinking beside a bitching thread. We need a thread about when dealers and even the Motor Company did the right thing or went above and beyond. I always treated the people at my dealership with respect and it payed off. It’s a shame that some of the people that bought the early PA had issues like I had. I let the process play out and in the end I was very happy with the results. We need to teach each other how to work the system to get the service and repairs done.
I agree with this. If there really are common problems that can be fixed then there is value in being able to say “here you go local dealer do this” or “why can’t you do this.”
I think that would help them either solve the problem or hold them accountable if they try to blow it off— not saying they would do that but still it is helpful.
 
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