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2023 frame issues

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#101 ·
diesel101 said:
Just curious if anyone else has had frame issues with their 2023? I brought mine home and noticed the monitor was slightly crooked after further inspection found the whole front fairing,windshiled,headlight assembly was shifted to one side. The dealership found the frame is manufactured wrong, the neck tube was misaligned when welded.
They have another new 2023 sitting on the showroom floor that is the same way. If you stand behind or in front of the bike you can tell the windshield is off to one side.
Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this or noticed this?
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Didn’t have this issue in my 21’. Sorry to hear about the problem and hope they clear it up.
 
#102 ·
DetroitDan said:
Well I got my my bike back today and got to talk to the technician who installed the new front frame.

He verified what has been discussed on this thread. A mispositioned tab on the front frame caused the front assembly to be crooked. He also said that although my back axle adjusters are set differently, he used the measuring tool from the center point of the swing arm to the center point of the axle to verify that my back tire is aligned correctly.

So, although it appeared as such, the motorcycle was not tracking crooked, or crabbing.

I had time to put about 60 mi on it today, I ran down south a bit to experience the totally eclipse. I love the motorcycle.

And Motown Harley, where I bought the bike, has really done everything they can to make it overall good experience.
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Hey @DetroitDan

Glad things worked out for you in the end. Sorry to hear it took so long to get your bike back. I will be sure to NOT just rely on the rear axle adjusters being in the same position on both sides of the swingarm to verify my rear axle is in alignment. Never thought that it would be OK for them to be in different locations on each side fo the swingarm.

I bought a chain alignment tool (Motion Pro Chain Alignment Tool--Part number 57-8048) for another bike. Will be sure to use it on my PA. If the chain is tracking straight, so should the wheel.
 
#103 ·
NoIDRecluse said:
Don’t read my posts then. I want potential buyers to know that the bike is crap and full of problems and that IF they choose to waste their money on a Pan America, they should be prepared to loose their ass financially. They should know that most parts are back ordered and that very few dealers know how to work on the bike.
Every time I have a new problem I am going to post about it.
If you are a happy with your bike, that’s great.
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Simply not true. Your experience in anecdotal. I have a '22 PAS and it's better than any bike you'll ever own. How's that for a story that cancels our yours...
 
#104 ·
DetroitDan said:
I am not sure right now.

Here is what I know for sure: I had the motorcycle for less than 4 hours. I only put about 22 miles on it. While I was riding, I noticed that the handlebars appeared to be turned to the right, and it felt like it was crabbing, while I was going straight. Being turned slightly to the right was not only in relationship to the TFT, but to the "gas tank." I stopped at home, because I had to adjust my shifter anyway, and did a real quick measurement from a couple of points to the TFT display, because my first hunch was that the TFT was mounted crooked. From my quick measurements at least, I did not see a difference in the measurements from one side to the other.

I did not actually check for crabbing by riding through water and looking at the tracks or anything like that.

I went back to the dealer immediately. One of the employees came out and went from the front to the back several times looking close to the ground and telling me to straighten the handlebars out. He said clearly there was an alignment problem. They had me pull it inside. While I was explaining the symptom, I looked down and realized that the rear axle was adjusted unevenly. In other words, one of the adjusters was significantly different than the other, maybe by a centimeter. I said that if I had known that was all that was wrong I would have adjusted it myself. The dealer service writer said, No you paid for VIP service we'll straighten it out."

I did not hear from them for a week, so I went back to the dealer to ask about my bike. When I inquired about the bike, they said that the front frame was welded incorrectly. They also stated they would have to replace the front frame. I was tremendously less than happy. I won't go into that right now. It's been over 3 weeks since I bought it, and it's still not done.

So, I am not exactly sure what part of the front frame was welded incorrectly. It may be the same problem addressed in this thread, or it may be a problem with the steering head geometry being incorrect. I do not know right now.

The crabbing effect could be caused by the misadjusted rear axle.

So this bike might have a couple of separate issues.

If they finish the repairs someday, I will get explicit details and share them in this thread.
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Keep us posted please. I bought a new 2024 PAS earlier today and noticed the bar was off to the right a smidge on the way home but chalked it out to a simple fix to be addressed at my first service. Come to find out, riding it tonight without the sun in my face, the bike is crab walking or the whole bike is not aligned. Suck, ride it twice. 50 miles on it now. Gotta sweat it out till Tuesday just to call the dealer about it.
 
#105 ·
TexasStalker83 said:
Keep us posted please. I bought a new 2024 PAS earlier today and noticed the bar was off to the right a smidge on the way home but chalked it out to a simple fix to be addressed at my first service. Come to find out, riding it tonight without the sun in my face, the bike is crab walking or the whole bike is not aligned. Suck, ride it twice. 50 miles on it now. Gotta sweat it out till Tuesday just to call the dealer about it.
Click to expand...
He did...

DetroitDan said:
So, although it appeared as such, the motorcycle was not tracking crooked, or crabbing.

I had time to put about 60 mi on it today, I ran down south a bit to experience the totally eclipse. I love the motorcycle.
Click to expand...
There aren't any actual reports of "crab walking" or any other frame issue besides the fairing mounting tabs on this forum.

If yours is a 24 with mis positioned tabs, it'll be the first reported 24 on this forum. This has been isolated to 2023 models so far. There are 4 pictured here and about 15 reported here.

If it's actually "crab walking" or has an actual frame issue. It's the only one. So please keep us updated as to what the service department actually finds.

And welcome to the forum.
 
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#106 ·
Tobba611 said:
He did...



There aren't any actual reports of "crab walking" or any other frame issue besides the fairing mounting tabs on this forum.

If yours is a 24 with mis positioned tabs, it'll be the first reported 24 on this forum. This has been isolated to 2023 models so far. There are 4 pictured here and about 15 reported here.

If it's actually "crab walking" or has an actual frame issue. It's the only one. So please keep us updated as to what the service department actually finds.

And welcome to the forum.
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Yea I see that now. Somehow missed his final post. I rode the bike more today and it seems I was wrong. The bike is tracking straight and the bars/forks are aligned. It’s the fairing and attached parts that are crooked. It’s easier to tell when looking at the windshield. You can see where it dips to the left and down a little bit. It also kinda looks like the “fuel tank” is crooked along with it. But that could be an optical illusion.
 
#107 ·
TexasStalker83 said:
Yea I see that now. Somehow missed his final post. I rode the bike more today and it seems I was wrong. The bike is tracking straight and the bars/forks are aligned. It’s the fairing and attached parts that are crooked. It’s easier to tell when looking at the windshield. You can see where it dips to the left and down a little bit. It also kinda looks like the “fuel tank” is crooked along with it. But that could be an optical illusion.
Click to expand...
Please post a Pic when you can. Check out the pics in this post and try to duplicate them.
 
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#109 ·
KINGPIN.OFFICIAL said:
Code.... any updates on this? I have heard various actions by HD from frame replacements to a special bracket to correct from HD to dealers charging for pulling apart and spacing to correct. All this while HD and every dealer I have spoken to claims that they are not aware of the issue. We all know they are. It is a defect in manufacturing and there are PLENTY of online discussions on this issue. With this assembly being off, dramatically, the headlight is not aligning as it should which causes a real safety issue. NHTSA and others will be added to my list to open cases on this issue if the factory does not take care of it. Let us all know your status when you can please. And if any parts were installed, what the part number(s) were to correct. Thanks!
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First action by Service Department was to replace the Upper Frame Section. This corrected 2/3 of the problem, but still appeared to be misaligned. Then Harley sent out a Tech from Washington who completely disassembled the front section of the bike to the frame and reassembled, focusing on alignment durning assembly. The final result was significantly better than original, but I can see a very slight misalignment. After looking at it and messing with a straight edge for quite awhile with the tech, I decided it was aligned enough for me. The bottom mounting tab on the New Frame section was still misaligned, but nothing near the first frame section that was removed. The Tech took my original Upper Frame Section for investigation.
 
#110 ·
Tobba611 said:
Please post a Pic when you can. Check out the pics in this post and try to duplicate them.
Click to expand...
I'll do my best to get some pictures. I just got off the phone with the dealer and they are looking into picking my bike up to be looked at. But I live 2 miles past their courtesy bike transport limit and the service writer is checking with his manager. I'll update this post as new info comes in.
 
#111 ·
TexasStalker83 said:
I'll do my best to get some pictures. I just got off the phone with the dealer and they are looking into picking my bike up to be looked at. But I live 2 miles past their courtesy bike transport limit and the service writer is checking with his manager. I'll update this post as new info comes in.
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The service advisor called me and said the bike is fixed. They adjusted the infotainment screen...
So either it's not actually fixed or it is and the advisor just isn't converying what the tech did exactly.
I talked to my sales rep, him and the sales manager are gonna ride the bike themsevles and have someone follow it to verify it's been fixed correctly
before sending it back to my house. We shall see tomorrow or the next day how it turned out.
 
#112 ·
diesel101 said:
Harley Davidsons cure for my issue is they want to do a frame swap on my new bike. I told my dealership I either wanted a new bike (being mine only has 9 mile on it) or I would like my money back. The dealership manager came right out and said they don't want my bike back. Needless to say the lawyers are now involved.
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Well, I was seriously considering a new Pan America. That Tiger 900 is looking better and better. I think I’ll move on. Thanks for the post.
 
#113 ·
2023DG said:
Hey @DetroitDan

Glad things worked out for you in the end. Sorry to hear it took so long to get your bike back. I will be sure to NOT just rely on the rear axle adjusters being in the same position on both sides of the swingarm to verify my rear axle is in alignment. Never thought that it would be OK for them to be in different locations on each side fo the swingarm.

I bought a chain alignment tool (Motion Pro Chain Alignment Tool--Part number 57-8048) for another bike. Will be sure to use it on my PA. If the chain is tracking straight, so should the wheel.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the kind words!

Please post what you find, regarding the relative adjuster positions vs. the alignment tool on your Pa'Am. I have not seen another bike where the adjustments can be different with an aligned wheel. So, just went out to check mine.

FIrst I made and alignment gauge with a wire coat hanger and a tie-wrap.
Then, I measured from the swing arm bolt to the axle.
As I suspected, THEY ARE NOT EQUAL.
The dealer was incorrect.
The back tire is out of alignment (unless the swing arm is crooked; and I'm pretty sure it isn't.)
After work, I am going to properly align it and make sure it still feels right.
Image



Image


Image

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#114 ·
Tobba611 said:
I think what Chris is trying to say is that the problem you are describing is NOT what this thread is about. Except for a couple of pics on the first page, which were a tangent subject, the posters here all have a tab mispositioned that causes the front fairing to dip to one side. It's not exactly a "frame issue" per se'... It's a fairing mount issue, which is on the frame, so maybe "frame" is the right word.

What you are describing is something completely different. If it is actually "crab walking" or "dog legging" you might actually have a frame or swing arm issue. I will be interested to see what the fix is/was and even more interested to see some pics of your issue.

Either way, you are alone in this issue, as far as I can tell. Please update us as to what the issue and fix is.
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The "tab" is welded directly to the Frame Neck. So it is definitely a frame manufacturing issue. It does not affect handling of the bike, but the only way to fix it is to replace the Upper Frame Section that has tabs welded in the correct alignment, or cut the tabs off the frame and weld a new one on (which would included painting the frame).
 
#115 ·
Code said:
The "tab" is welded directly to the Frame Neck. So it is definitely a frame manufacturing issue. It does not affect handling of the bike, but the only way to fix it is to replace the Upper Frame Section that has tabs welded in the correct alignment, or cut the tabs off the frame and weld a new one on (which would included painting the frame).
Click to expand...
Yuh... Said that.

Tobba611 said:
It's a fairing mount issue, which is on the frame, so maybe "frame" is the right word.
Click to expand...
This thread has gone off on wild tangents.. I was trying to clarify the issue.
 
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#116 ·
rhodes4333 said:
Didn’t have this issue in my 21’. Sorry to hear about the problem and hope they clear it up.
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I just traded in my 2021 base model for a 2024 special, and yes, mine has the crooked fairing. It's quite small, you can only tell setting on the bike. I'd say maybe 3/8 of an inch. I wonder if by shimming that could also fix it?
 
#117 ·
diesel101 said:
Harley Davidsons cure for my issue is they want to do a frame swap on my new bike. I told my dealership I either wanted a new bike (being mine only has 9 mile on it) or I would like my money back. The dealership manager came right out and said they don't want my bike back. Needless to say the lawyers are now involved.
Click to expand...
What was the final outcome?
 
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