[tman2010]

I tried to install a Motobatt MHTX16 battery in my 2021 PAS but ran into an issue. I could not get the positive cable to line up with the positive terminal on the battery, no issues with the negative cable. Since the positive cable is integrated into the battery bracket I do see any wiggle room to be able to move the cable.

I'm hoping somebody else has already done this and figured it out.

Thanks!

MHTX16 Motobatt Hybrid Lithium Battery

 

[tman2010]

I was able to figure out my issue with the MHTX16 battery. It comes with two of the following foam spacers, you have to attach one of them to the bottom of the battery when installing into a Pan America.

In order to attach the positive cable to the positive terminal I had to remove the three foam strips that are in the bottom of the battery compartment.

I asked the folks where I purchased the MHTX16 battery (Impact Battery) if they had any recommendation on torque values on the M6 screws (used to attach cables to battery) & the M5 screws (used to attach terminals to battery) and they said “I just tighten by hand until I notice resistance change and maybe go a quarter turn more”. I checked with the Motobatt folks and they said they did not have any recommendations on torque values.

After all of this it doesn’t look like the Motobatt MHTX16 battery is going to resolve the issues (i.e. start & fault codes) that I have been having with my PAS. After installing a fully charged MHTX16 battery I attempted to start my bike eight times. My results were:

• Five times the bike started OK, no fault codes.
• One time a very slow start, two fault codes (BCM=C181664C, ECM=U228700P), measured voltage dropped to 8.25v when starting.
• One no start, no fault codes, measured voltage dropped to 8.24v when starting.
• One slow start, no fault codes, measured voltage dropped to 9.30v when starting.

The MHTX16 battery is supposed to have a CCA rating of 350. I find it a little odd that I am seeing the same results that I am having with the HD battery (65958-04C) which has a CCA rating of 225. Or maybe there is something else wrong with my bike causing the voltage to drop too low when starting. Anybody have any ideas?

 

[Dirtglide]

Wiring between the battery and the starter not up to the job?

 

[tman2010]

Sometime last year I thought I remember seeing something in HD's Service Information Portal that said something about the nut that attaches the cable to the starter not being properly tightened in the factory. But for the life of me I can't find it now (I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it). I did find M1533: 2021 Pan America Starter Wire which talks about an incorrect starter wire routing. Mine is routed correctly. Per the service manual it sounds like it might be a bit of a chore getting to the starter. Although, sometimes on paper things sound more difficult than they are. Curious, has anybody accessed the starter? If yes, do you have any tips/tricks on getting access to the starter?

In the meantime....
After installing the MHTX16 battery on Saturday and completing the tests indicated above I plugged the battery into my charger overnight. On Sunday afternoon I decided to take a ride to see how it goes. Before I left for a ride I started the bike three times just to see what happens. My bike started three times on the first attempt with no fault codes so off I went. Within the first 50 miles (of my 150 mile ride) the triangle appeared three times with a BCM fault code of C181014. Each time the fault cleared by itself without me having to do anything. For the remainder of my ride I did not get any additional faults. My first stop was at a gas station. When starting my bike after filling up it started on the first attempt with no faults. I pulled into a parking space to go inside and cool off. When I went to leave my bike started up the first attempt with no faults. For the remainder of my ride I stopped a few times just so I could see what happens when I hit the start button. Every time I started the bike it started the first attempt with no faults. All total I think it was around eight times that I hit the start button, each time my bike started on the first attempt with no fault codes. I get back home and parked the bike in my garage (I did not plug the bike into a charger). This morning I thought I would see what happens when starting the bike. I tried three different times:

• Start 1: the bike started on the first attempt with no faults.
• Start 2: the bike started on the first attempt with no faults.
• Start 3: the bike slow started on the first attempt with two faults (BCM=C181664, ECM=U228700). I did not hook up a voltmeter but the voltage reading on the TFT was in the 9.xx range.

 

[Cold]

Hey ironically stumbled on your post while about to look through forums for some error codes, just installed this battery today, I had 0 issues installing it, I already had foam on the bottom in my battery bank. I believe I've had similar error codes. My issue with the bike right now is sometimes at startup idle goes to 3500 rpm, only other thing on the battery is the soundbomb, but I am having a hard time believing its the issue considering it's not even hooked up at the moment, and im still having issues. I havent had the 181664 code (Rear stroke + plausibility according to the code chart) but the U228700 is a default code I've seen a few times.

 

[tman2010]

Hey ironically stumbled on your post while about to look through forums for some error codes, just installed this battery today, I had 0 issues installing it, I already had foam on the bottom in my battery bank. I believe I've had similar error codes. My issue with the bike right now is sometimes at startup idle goes to 3500 rpm, only other thing on the battery is the soundbomb, but I am having a hard time believing its the issue considering it's not even hooked up at the moment, and im still having issues. I havent had the 181664 code (Rear stroke + plausibility according to the code chart) but the U228700 is a default code I've seen a few times.

Have you been having start issues with your bike? Meaning, not starting on the first attempt. If yes, did the MHTX16 battery resolve the issue for you? Have you measured the lowest voltage while starting your bike?

 

[Cold]

At first I didn't have any issues but it went back to the old issue of failing to start, and on 2nd attempt it would run at 3500rpm. Battery voltage is still high and good.

I read in another page on forums here (pan america wont start) that instead of holding the ignition down, while the bike starts, just press it briefly, I have had several starts with no issues that way since starting it today.

For right now, I have no problems. Voltage at the tender is reading 13.35. Since the battery is dual agm / lithium you can charge it with a trickle charger.

Whatever issue I am fighting, I believe its the same one you are having. The only difference is the soundbomb, is forcing mine to run at 3500 rpm on failed starts.

Ill keep you posted if I run into anything else, for now I would just pull your battery and make sure its good using either your multimeter or taking it to oreillys / autozone to have them test it for state of health. Once you know the battery is good you can reinstall, if your still seeing a 8v drop across the two posts then you have another issue altogether.

 

[tman2010]

When starting I used the MAX/MIN feature on my voltmeter to capture the minimum voltage. On fairly fresh (i.e. charged) batteries I have measured below 8v with the stock battery and below 9v with the Motobatt MHTX16 battery when starting. Right before I captured the lowest voltage (i.e. before hitting the start button) I captured the voltage reading on the batteries with the ignition on. The average voltage on the stock battery before hitting the start button was around 12.5v and the average voltage on the Motobatt MHTX16 was around 13.1v. I wish I would have tried the Antigravity ATX12-HD-RS battery.

 

[Cold]

I started the bike two more times before I left my house for the day.. started up both times. Maybe see if you have a parasitic draw on the battery? Wish I could be of more help, im happy with the purchase. But I believe the issue with failing to start at least for me is ecm/bcm related and im speaking just strictly off the u228700 code. What voltage are you getting when its off the bike?

 

[tman2010]

For the most part I think I usually get fault codes as a result of the voltage dropping too low when starting. My bike usually starts if I press the start button a 2nd time, but some of the electronic components may have latched onto the low voltage and fault codes may pop up later during a ride. To try to avoid that if my bike doesn't start on the first attempt I turn everything off and start over. I used to have an occasional fault code pop up but it seems like things have gotten much worse since my bike was updated a few weeks ago. I was hesitate to have them update my bike but I wanted my hill hold to last more than 10 seconds. I love this bike but I am starting to get very frustrated. I'm at the point I almost regret trading my vStrom for the PAS.

 

[CrewDawg]

Off topic a bit, but do you happen to have the specific version that updated the hill hold. I requested the update when I had my recalls done last month, but mine is still at 10 seconds.

 

[tman2010]

Sorry, I do not know what versions they installed. It would be nice if we had a way of seeing that info. I finally got around to getting the two recalls done (handrail & infotainment) about a month ago (or so) and I asked them to apply the latest updates. Sounds like there may have been some updates since then. All I want right now is for the bike to consistently start the first time & not have any low voltage issues. I was hoping the Motobatt MHTX16 battery would solve my issues but no dice. It is a little better than the stock battery but not by much.

 

[drifter]

Sorry, I do not know what versions they installed. It would be nice if we had a way of seeing that info. I finally got around to getting the two recalls done (handrail & infotainment) about a month ago (or so) and I asked them to apply the latest updates. Sounds like there may have been some updates since then. All I want right now is for the bike to consistently start the first time & not have any low voltage issues. I was hoping the Motobatt MHTX16 battery would solve my issues but no dice. It is a little better than the stock battery but not by much.

what electrical mods or additions have you made?

 

[tman2010]

I have not added many powered accessories, what little I added (I.e. GPS) has been removed for now.

 

[Cold]

Update on my end. I have been able to start the bike without issue and without it going to 3500 rpm, only change was pressing the ignition briefly instead of holding it. Have you had a chance to see what the battery voltage is with it removed from the bike or at least isolated?

 

[tman2010]

On a fully charged Motobatt MHTX16 battery (meaning, just unplugged from a charger) I was reading in the neighborhood of 13.32v with the battery off the bike & installed on the bike with the ignition off. When starting my bike there were times when I saw the voltage drop to below 9v on the MHTX16 battery. I have seen the voltage drop to below 8v when starting my bike with a fully charged OEM battery. When my bike did start on the first attempt (i.e. voltage didn't drop too low) I did not notice any improvements using the MHTX16 battery vs. the OEM battery. For this reason I returned the MHTX16 battery.

 

[Cold]

So the fact that you had two batteries with that low of a voltage (8v original / 9v MHTX16), makes me skeptical the battery was the issue. You could of got a bad battery. Ill see if I can get some alligator clamps down on the terminal posts tonight when I get home, then see what min/max shows on the meter. I dont think mine drops that low, as I havent noticed it on the TFT.

Bottom line if you get a new battery, and same symptoms. It's Harley's problem to figure out. Sorry you are chasing the electrical gremlins my friend.

 

[tman2010]

To my knowledge anyone who has or had the starter squeal, slow start, no start or start with faults is because the voltage is dropping too low when starting.

 

[MarcS]

Things to always check when there are electrical issues. Battery connections (obviously ok since you just installed one). And often overlooked... Grounds. Lots of them. Check the battery connection at the starter, make sure it's tight. You can even add an additional ground from the battery to the engine case. I've added boost points to my bike just because the battery is very hard to get at with my CAMEL ADV Skidplate. I'll try to remember to post a pic when I get home...
I'm not surprised you have a good 2-3 starts then a weak one.... These are not big batteries, they don't have the reserve for high draw loads multiple times in a row...

 

[tman2010]

Yeah, I checked the connection from the battery to the starter. The nut that attaches the cable to the starter was tight. Maybe it is just coincidental but I didn’t start having my current start issues (and ARH locking into high position) until my bike (BCM, ECM, etc.) was updated a few weeks ago. I have seen voltage drop below 8v when starting and the bike still started but who knows how some of the components (like ARH) react to such low voltage.