[StephanT]

hi All,

I have a standard Pan-Am.. and they don't come with either hand guards or heated grips.. ordered some hand guards when I ordered the bike (Sept..) and still don't have them..
..maybe there are other handguards that anyone has fitted?

I have also decided to buy a set of heated grips "56100401 tactical heated hand grips" - has anyone ever fitted these to the standard version?

obviously the left handlebar switches don't have the heated grips switch.. but if the harness makes provision for this, I'll make a plan.. ;-)

I plan to dig into the wiring diagrams of both my model as well as the special, as well as take the left handlebar grip apart over the holidays to see what the connectors and harness look like.. and what the options are...

but if anyone has any info or details that could help - I would sure appreciate that!

best
Stephan

 

[StephanT]

hi All, some more digging..

well interestingly, the heated grips (HD Tactical Heated Grips part# 56100401 - has a 4 pin JWPF connector... it seems two pins are the heating element and 2 pins are the heating sensor.. (I suspect they just PWM the heating element and use the Temp sensor to regulate the heat..

and

Here below you can see the left hand switch cluster wiring diagram as per the HD Pan Am wiring diagram.. interesting that it is just 4 wires, and I traced them, they're just the two CAN wires and then obviously the 2 supply wires (12V and a GND)

anyway.. more digging over the weekend..

 

[Bryan.gale]

I’m following this, Im in the exact same situation. There’s some decent aftermarket heated grips, but it would be nice to be able to install the OEM special grips. I’m curious how to adjust the heat without the button on the left side of the controls.

 

[StephanT]

will let you know what I find...

 

[StephanT]

Ok, so I've run into a show stopper.. (for now)
the inside of the electronics of the switch cluster is potted with soft transparant silicone potting.. (as expected).. however the heated grips connectors are not populated... here is the left switch cluster..

this naturally is also the same for the right switch cluster:

I'm further a little confused by the JWPF-8 connectors.. as the wiring diagrams show only 4 wires (for both left and right switch sets..
in the above picture of the left switch cluster wiring diagram you can see the following:
Black/Green (BK/GN) : for ground
Red/Orange (R/O) : for switched 12V supply
White/Red (W/R) : for CAN +
White/Black (W/BK) : for CAN -

Wondering what the other four wires are for..?

Seems like I will need to have a look what the prices are of the left and right switch clusters.. or if anyone knows of a crash bike.. that I could have a donation pair (either S or non-S).. I will look to modify the cluster set... (naturally I don't what to do that with my only (working) set... 😇

stay tuned...

 

[StephanT]

Right, back from the dealer... - brace yourselves...

• Left switch kit for the RA1250S : £327.27 incl
• Right switch kit for the RA1250S : £327.27 incl

that's just a tad more than I was willing to pay

now let's keep our eyes open for a set from a crash bike etc..

best,
S

 

[Rasta Derrick]

hi All, some more digging..

well interestingly, the heated grips (HD Tactical Heated Grips part# 56100401 - has a 4 pin JWPF connector... it seems two pins are the heating element and 2 pins are the heating sensor.. (I suspect they just PWM the heating element and use the Temp sensor to regulate the heat..

and

Here below you can see the left hand switch cluster wiring diagram as per the HD Pan Am wiring diagram.. interesting that it is just 4 wires, and I traced them, they're just the two CAN wires and then obviously the 2 supply wires (12V and a GND)

anyway.. more digging over the weekend..

The diagram is clear but is there a way to plug the heated grip connector into the module ?? I'm having the same situation . 🙃 (RA1250 standard).

 

[Rasta Derrick]

Right, back from the dealer... - brace yourselves...

• Left switch kit for the RA1250S : £327.27 incl
• Right switch kit for the RA1250S : £327.27 incl

that's just a tad more than I was willing to pay

now let's keep our eyes open for a set from a crash bike etc..

best,
S

Guess I'm simply going for the universal Oxford Heated Grips that are already decenia on the market and Have proven their quality . They cost about 120€ and will install easily .

 

[StephanT]

I’m still contemplating the problem… will come up with some suggestions…

 

[StephanT]

Right, a little Christmas Eve experimentation...

I'm referring to the wire colours as on the Heated Grip itself (not my adapter). I measured them up and found resistance between Green & White and Yellow & Brown respectively.. I measured these at room temp around 20C.. then I dunked them in water with some ice in it.. (10.xC) and then some water from the warm tap (36C)..

what I found was that the Green and white remains constant at between 8.6 to 9.6 ohm, which is in the range I would expect for a heating element... while the Yellow & Brown was in the range for the range for a typical negative coefficient thermistor...:
10.8C -> 63.5k ohm
20C -> 59.1k ohm
36.5C -> 46.4k ohm

So there we are.. at least we know which ones are the element and which ones are the thermistor...

in theory we don't need the thermistor... we could just PWM (Puls Width Modulate) the battery supply over the element... - all the thermistor does, is measure the temperature, and adjust the PWM signal more or less to achieve a predetermined set point...

what I've done is oder a spare Oxford controller (around £25 on ebay)

I will measure that up when it arrives, but I suspect they just PWM the output to the grips at 30%, 40%, 50% 75% and 100%... - will confirm once they arrive...

I think my preferred option would be an integration into the HEX ezCAN - it already does a PWM output for Heated Gear based on the status of the heated grips, to use the same output based on one of the buttons should be trivial.. There are some custom expansion add-ons coming as well... Hmmm ... Let's see..

The reason I want to stick to the H-D Tactical grip: (a) I like the grips themselves.. and (b), the Pan Am is a drive by wire bike, hence the throttle is a potentiometer.. and these grips fit perfectly (obviously) into the Potentiometer that is in the Switch set..

Will keep you posted.. and Merry Christmas to all!

 

[StephanT]

Some more feedback... Let's start with the good news..

the heating element is tightly wound and creates a good spread of heat... It's always nice to get a visual confirmation.. so here is a FLIR caption of the left grip. This was shortly after powering it up.. hence the low thirties Centigrade...

now on to the not so good news... remember in an earlier post where I said we could probably just power it the whole time.. which naturally would lead to max temperature that it can be at... Well, don't do that.. that WILL destroy your grips.. I suspect because H-D designed these to be temperature controlled, they designed it with the lowest temperature lag in mind.. i.e. a low temperature coefficient of change.. which is great, it means it reaches operating temperature a lot faster.. and is easier to control with a typical PI controller.. However this also means it is a hell-of-a element..

I set the power supply to 14.4V (typical for a charging voltage while the engine is running) and connected this up to the element.. I used a digital thermometer (accuracy around 0.5C), measuring in C, strapped to the heated grip and secured with a cable tie.. I also measure the value of the thermistor, mapping the temp to kohm as the temperature went up...

above you can see a temperature of 78.4C was measuring 4.39kohm... that's all good and well.. The bad news is that the Temperature just keeps on rising.. At 95C (that's 203F), the rubber of the grip was soft and started to deform around the temperature probe and cable tie... so I removed power to the grip... and NO, I'm pretty sure we want hot grips.. but not THAT hot..!

The bottom line.. if we want to uses the OE H-D Tactical heated grips, we will have to control the temperature... not as straight forward as just powering them up.. but not that tough either...

Just for sake of completeness... here is the mapping of thermistor resistance to grip temperature... (this is a (very) rough guide only.. - see explanation below...

temperature (C) -> resistance in kohm *
23 -> 55.1
60 -> 5.94
65 -> 4.47
70 -> 4.09
75 -> 4.68
80 -> 4.20
85 -> 3.75
90 -> 4.42
95 -> 3.16
* It should be noted that the values will not be an exact match.. because of the much longer time constant of the digital temperature sensor I'm using.. in theory we could only be measuring in temperature steady state... In reality the temperature rises much faster (especially in the ambient to hot range) than the digital temp sensor can show or read and this is evident by just watching the thermistor value change while the temperature readout remains rather constant..

What's next..?
1). I would like to find an S model with heated grips of course, and measure the temperature of the grips at Low, Medium & High respectively.. then we have the targets for our control system
2). Drive my grips using a HEX ezCAN, using the manual control of the Diagnostics window (where you can set the % PWM for each output.)
3). find a willing person with an S who will allow me to connect their left hand switch set to my bike.. I want to see whether:
3.1) the Instrument cluster will show the heated grip settings when you push the heated grip button, and
3.2) whether the CAN-bus messages of the heated grip settings will be updated accordingly...

Stay tuned..

 

[Nimda]

I’d be happy to help. Only issue is your a 4 hour ride from the NW UK.
Very interesting post and information.
On a side note. Are you the same Stephan I was talking to about the Hex ezCAN on the first Saturday of Motorcycle Live.

 

[StephanT]

I’d be happy to help. Only issue is your a 4 hour ride from the NW UK.
Very interesting post and information.

Thanks - I'm currently duplicating the info on some other forums too.. (didn't think) it would be this long.. thinking of just doing a writeup on a blog and linking to it.. (also easier to structure and add pertinent info and delete anything that's pointless and not contributing to the shared knowledge..

On a side note. Are you the same Stephan I was talking to about the Hex ezCAN on the first Saturday of Motorcycle Live.

I'm afraid it would be me... I hope I was at least a little knowledgeable - if not it was either
i) too little coffee , or
ii) too many beers

just realised I haven't updated an avatar/profilepic yet.. done! (that was at the ABR, and that's my Stetson.. aka my marketing hat )

 

[Nimda]

You where more than a little knowledgeable. I was very impressed.

If you think you could talk someone through getting the info you needs let me know. Just bear in mind you're directing someone with only a basic understanding of electrics and multimeter .

 

[StephanT]

no worries - Al, a friendly Pan Am rider from the dhforum lives relatively close by.. and needed an excuse to go for a ride...

Al's bike has GripPuppies over his grips, but that's no issue, as we just slid the little temperature probe under them and the GripPuppies actually doubled as a clamp, keeping the probe snugly in contact with the actual grip surface... (silly me - didn't take a photo of the setup..)

we started off at the low setting.. (easier to heat them up to a low temperature and then increase the setpoint, than having to let them cooldown for every setting..
We were a little surprised (well I was) at how long they took to heat up.. I do get a feeling the Tactical ones are much faster... (that would be a cool comparison at some point..)

here we go (these are the temperatures (in C) at which the grips stabilised for the respective settings:
off (ambient) - > 21 C
Low -> 34/35 C
Med -> 45/47 C
High -> 55/56 C

I'd be willing to take a stab at saying that the target temps are most likely 35C, 45C & 55C for Low, Medium & High respectively..

here are some of the cool (or should I say HOT) pics...
(Note how hot the metal Barends get..!!)

On the LOW setting:

On the MEDIUM setting:

On the HIGH setting:

And some Bonus content...

The whole bike as seen from the right - We had just switched off the engine... but it was idling for probably a half an hour in total..

and one from the front - why not!

and then a bit more of a close-up of the right side of the engine..
No surprise why my right leg heats up a little... the heat of that rear cylinder really is prominent.. al be it we should remember this was stationary with zero airflow over it...

Stay tuned...

 

[Nimda]

That last image of the right hand side looks awesome. I might just of found my new desktop wallpaper.

 

[StephanT]

Hehe - i can send the the full res one, if you like

 

[StephanT]

I think I might have found a relatively cheap and yet clean solution... it seems that Oxford Products released a new generation of heated grips in 2021, they are called the EVO range and it is a completely new controller and set of grips, with.. wait for it.. a Thermistor in each grip, so the controller can control the temperature of each grip... And best of all, the Controllers are sold separately.. for around £45..

I've ordered a set, and will test... first we have to make sure that the Oxford grips use an NTC, then we need to check what value NTC it is (the HD ones are 50k @ 25C).. but I'm sure we can fiddle that to make it work... Let's see...

For anyone interested, there are two (actually 3) versions and they differ in length.. - if you were to want to go the whole Oxford hog.. and use their Heated Grips... you should order the "Adventure" version, as i measured the HD Tactical grips and they are 130mm exactly.. -> Oxford Hotgrips EVO Adventure (EL420)

and if this works (finger's crossed) then you only have to oder the v9 controller -> Oxford Hotgrips EVO V9 controller - Motorcycle (EL425)

Don't order anything just yet.. it all depends on the Thermistor that the Oxford grips use...

It also seems like the Oxford grips use a common ground for the Thermistor and heating element... (see only 3-pin connector and 3 wires..)

I ordered a set of Adventures.. let's hope they get here by the weekend..

Stay tuned...

 

[Bryan.gale]

@StephanT Hey Stephan, any update on how these grips are working for you?

 

[StephanT]

@StephanT Hey Stephan, any update on how these grips are working for you?

which ones are you referring to?
don't have any Heated grips on mine yet.. I was thinking of using the Oxford controller with the HD Tactical grips, but due to the different NTC resistors used as temperature sensors in the two grips, they HD ones won't "just plug-and-play".. working on that though.. but will need to find some more time..