[Holymartyr]

So I've had a ton of issues with this bike ranging from starting, to the bike dying while riding, to screen blanking, to having my battery, radiator hose and clutch replaced on my bike with 10,500 miles. (All of which I talked about in this thread: Here!)

So I was told today by a new dealer (not the one I got the bike from) that they've already replaced 3 other starters in both 2021 and 2022 Pan Am's with the explanation of:

"The Harley factory sometime between 2021 and 2022 changed the design of the starter to draw less power, while increasing the gear ratio for torque thus improving starting. Some 2022's have the old starter however, and my bike is one of those (they checked the serial apparently)."

I haven't found ANY information anywhere else about this...has anyone else heard something about it? And if you're having starting issues, (if this is true), this might be something you want to follow up with your dealer.

 

[stefano.gigli.1962]

Video 1.

 

[Holymartyr]

Well this is extremely helpful, thank you very much.

I'm curious about the picture of the new starter clutch. Any chance the "interactive" pictures show more detail? Doesn't look like the gearing was changed...? Unless I'm mistaken?

And, this also mentions only a gearing change, nothing about power draw...which is something my dealer said was also addressed...hrm =\

EDIT: Also means what my dealer told me about this being something they fixed between '21 / '22 bikes being BS...yay..

 

[BGP PanTastic]

My starting issues, code throwing (some that are not in their code book) are getting worse , despite HD doing updates on all the control module's.
I was recently told that there is a service bulletin (not a recall) for the starter clutch being replaced that has been proven to stop this mess. I was told that bulletins have to be addressed under warranty but parts might be limited, will see.
I'm still arguing with them about redoing the pins on my ARH that's coding and not dropping at stops. Hopefully these two fixes will get me from one service to another without issues.

 

[Holymartyr]

My starting issues, code throwing (some that are not in their code book) are getting worse , despite HD doing updates on all the control module's.
I was recently told that there is a service bulletin (not a recall) for the starter clutch being replaced that has been proven to stop this mess. I was told that bulletins have to be addressed under warranty but parts might be limited, will see.
I'm still arguing with them about redoing the pins on my ARH that's coding and not dropping at stops. Hopefully these two fixes will get me from one service to another without issues.

The "service bulletin" for the starter clutch is a "recent thing", but they've known about it since January 2022. My '22 bike was actually made in Dec 21, so I didn't receive the updated starter clutch. They replaced it by pulling one from the factory line. You have to push them on this if you still have the old starter clutch design. They've known about this problem for a while, do not let them jerk you around with this service bulletin crap. I have no idea why they "claim" this is a recent issue - by use of this bulletin...but I've confirmed with both a dealer, and now a Milwaukee tech that they've known about the starter clutch issue for a while - and they switched over to the new design in Jan 22.

As for improper pins for ARH sensors - I also ran into that exact same issue. They had to cut wires, and I can't tell if they used a simple crimp connection, or properly soldered it together - because they used some fairly thick shrinkwrap. But it took my bike MONTHS before it finally threw the "code" that let the technician zero in on the problem.

And even now, I'm not certain my ARH has been fixed. It's caused me to drop my bike at least 3 times offroad, when I really REALLY needed to put my foot down...and the bike was another 2in off the ground. -.-

 

[BGP PanTastic]

Was the reason they cut your wires was because they replaced the whole plug?
I bought my PanAm special in June 22' so not sure where mfg date falls yet, but I want a new starter clutch. Being stuck between a new undependable motorcycle, lazy mechanics and uncooperative Milwaukee tech's sucks for sure.

 

[Holymartyr]

They cut my wires because the plug was wired incorrectly from the factory.

And I know how you feel, perhaps more. Battery was replaced, coolant line burned through - replaced, clutch basket destroyed itself - entire clutch replaced, starter clutch replaced with a version that actually (appears) to work.

Bought mine April '22. Been on the fence about lemon lawing the bike for months now. Lost use of it for well over 70 days at this point. Not fun.

 

[BGP PanTastic]

I was told that it being wired wrong at mfg. was fixed by redoing the pins in the plug.
It would seem a well paid HD mechanic with patches on his arm and nose in the air would know that.
I live in the state of Georgia US, no lemon law here for motorcycles. Over two months it's been at dealer and trailering it to a different dealership now when part's come in , but hey that's only a third of the time I've had it, at least it has low low miles.
Good luck, maybe soon we can get to use this thing for what its made for.

 

[BGP PanTastic]

The "service bulletin" for the starter clutch is a "recent thing", but they've known about it since January 2022. My '22 bike was actually made in Dec 21, so I didn't receive the updated starter clutch. They replaced it by pulling one from the factory line. You have to push them on this if you still have the old starter clutch design. They've known about this problem for a while, do not let them jerk you around with this service bulletin crap. I have no idea why they "claim" this is a recent issue - by use of this bulletin...but I've confirmed with both a dealer, and now a Milwaukee tech that they've known about the starter clutch issue for a while - and they switched over to the new design in Jan 22.

As for improper pins for ARH sensors - I also ran into that exact same issue. They had to cut wires, and I can't tell if they used a simple crimp connection, or properly soldered it together - because they used some fairly thick shrinkwrap. But it took my bike MONTHS before it finally threw the "code" that let the technician zero in on the problem.

And even now, I'm not certain my ARH has been fixed. It's caused me to drop my bike at least 3 times offroad, when I really REALLY needed to put my foot down...and the bike was another 2in off the ground. -.-

I finally found the service bulletin M1560 that came out 8-10-22, it says it was put in production 1-13-22 , not sure how that plays out with mfg dates through.

 

[Holymartyr]

Yep. They've known about the starter for a long time. Didn't want to make it public until recently. Real slick HD.

You'll have to ask your dealer for them to lookup your VIN and get info on when you bike was actually produced.