[Terronaut]

Hi everyone - so happy to find this forum. I just purchased a '22 Pan America Special about two weeks ago to add to my '78 Shovelhead and '15 Road Glide.

Loving the bike so far, but noticed an overheating issue yesterday. Temperatures in the Dallas, Texas area were in the upper 90's, and while moving, coolant temp would fluctuate somewhere around the 200-220 mark as expected. When stuck/stopped in traffic, however, I noticed my coolant temp would rise quickly - VERY quickly. At 235 degrees F, the bike starts to idle very rough and even stalled a few times as the temp even went higher, I believe it hit almost 250F before I got moving again. I checked my coolant level, and it was indeed low (wasn't even registering on the dip stick). So I added about 12oz of coolant and topped off the expansion tank. But riding the bike afterwards, it started doing the same thing - quickly rising to 235F when stopped at red lights, etc., and idling very roughly - I even have to move the throttle slightly to keep it running at 235F+. NOT GOOD WITH A LIQUID COOLED BIKE!! The cooling fan is operating, and the bike is super clean so no radiator obstructions.

Does anyone know of any issues with Pan Am's overheating? I presume it's got a thermostat in it - perhaps this needs to be changed out?

Thanks so much!

 

[roadrash83]

I would get the bike back to the dealer. I live in south Florida and I never had an over heating issue with my 21 and it gets hot during the summer here.

 

[asa]

Hi everyone - so happy to find this forum. I just purchased a '22 Pan America Special about two weeks ago to add to my '78 Shovelhead and '15 Road Glide.

Loving the bike so far, but noticed an overheating issue yesterday. Temperatures in the Dallas, Texas area were in the upper 90's, and while moving, coolant temp would fluctuate somewhere around the 200-220 mark as expected. When stuck/stopped in traffic, however, I noticed my coolant temp would rise quickly - VERY quickly. At 235 degrees F, the bike starts to idle very rough and even stalled a few times as the temp even went higher, I believe it hit almost 250F before I got moving again. I checked my coolant level, and it was indeed low (wasn't even registering on the dip stick). So I added about 12oz of coolant and topped off the expansion tank. But riding the bike afterwards, it started doing the same thing - quickly rising to 235F when stopped at red lights, etc., and idling very roughly - I even have to move the throttle slightly to keep it running at 235F+. NOT GOOD WITH A LIQUID COOLED BIKE!! The cooling fan is operating, and the bike is super clean so no radiator obstructions.

Does anyone know of any issues with Pan Am's overheating? I presume it's got a thermostat in it - perhaps this needs to be changed out?

Thanks so much!

I think the rough running is the bike turning off fuel/ spark to rear cylinder.
That cylinder acts like a air pump to help with cooling.
Basically bike is running on one cylinder.

 

[Terronaut]

I would get the bike back to the dealer. I live in south Florida and I never had an over heating issue with my 21 and it gets hot during the summer here.

Thanks - I definitely need to, it’s doing it tonight at 85 degrees F when stuck in traffic! Scheduled for her 1000 mile service next Friday so that’s going to be a top priority. I m concerned that dealers don’t have much experience with Pan Am’s.

 

[Terronaut]

I think the rough running is the bike turning off fuel/ spark to rear cylinder.
That cylinder acts like a air pump to help with cooling.
Basically bike is running on one cylinder.

Yes thanks and for sure - my 103 shuts down the rear cylinder spark at high temp and I’m sure the Pan Am is protecting itself the same way - BUT shouldn’t be getting this hot.

 

[LUHDEW]

Hi everyone - so happy to find this forum. I just purchased a '22 Pan America Special about two weeks ago to add to my '78 Shovelhead and '15 Road Glide.

Loving the bike so far, but noticed an overheating issue yesterday. Temperatures in the Dallas, Texas area were in the upper 90's, and while moving, coolant temp would fluctuate somewhere around the 200-220 mark as expected. When stuck/stopped in traffic, however, I noticed my coolant temp would rise quickly - VERY quickly. At 235 degrees F, the bike starts to idle very rough and even stalled a few times as the temp even went higher, I believe it hit almost 250F before I got moving again. I checked my coolant level, and it was indeed low (wasn't even registering on the dip stick). So I added about 12oz of coolant and topped off the expansion tank. But riding the bike afterwards, it started doing the same thing - quickly rising to 235F when stopped at red lights, etc., and idling very roughly - I even have to move the throttle slightly to keep it running at 235F+. NOT GOOD WITH A LIQUID COOLED BIKE!! The cooling fan is operating, and the bike is super clean so no radiator obstructions.

Does anyone know of any issues with Pan Am's overheating? I presume it's got a thermostat in it - perhaps this needs to be changed out?

Thanks so much!

The bike (along with MANY other HDs) has what's called EITMS
Here's HD explanation: https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson...742349482302730/BLAISE/1052715/en_US?nid=5671

When certain criteria are met (ie your temps getting that high) it shuts off fuel to the rear cylinder.

You can turn this off but it's quite a safety device. When sitting still, rolled the throttle forward till it bottoms out and hold... Cruise light will flash ORANGE for off and GREEN for on

 

[Terronaut]

Thanks - and yes I think the bike is protecting itself from overheating by delaying spark, etc. however it shouldn’t be getting this hot at 90-95 degrees.

 

[Knobbin]

I know the air cooled HDs have EITMS, and I know that you get the same light on the PA when you go to throttle roll-off, but liquid-cooling should eliminate the need.

I've never seen the enable/disable EITMS feature mentioned in PA documentation, or any mention of Rev Max having this feature except in forums. Anybody have PA specific documentation re: presence of EITMS?

 

[Alberto Rinaldo]

I live in an extremely high temps country, waiting for the real summer to come and see how the engine will react. So far, the normal working engine temp is 86 C. (187 F.), when stopping at the traffic lights goes up to 105 C. (220 F.) but now the average ambient temp is around 25 C. (77 F.) waiting for the 40 C. (104 F.) to come and see.

My biggest concerns are about the radiator hose being so close to the exhaust pipe :-( Harley should find a solution for that and recall the bikes to replace the pipes!

 

[Sq51lacfd]

Here's another thought...........
You can see from my other posts on a melted radiator hose, that it has caused me to look in to this issue WAY more than I intended.
The reason for my melted radiator hose was actually a combination of factors. It was not until I spoke with the tech at the dealer who worked on it, that he and I both became aware of a greater issue.........
Not only was the radiator hose melted, but installed improperly. So, after the tech actually removed the entire radiator did he find the root cause. The hose was crushed against the motor during assembly. This caused decreased flow through that hose, causing one end of it to swell when under high flow and heat.
This swelling caused the hose to warp out of shape and contact the O2 sensor in the front exhaust header. This is what led to the melting of the hose itself.
Is it possible to have restricted flow that leads to quickly rising temps? Sure.
Is it possible that the protection element of shuttering the rear cylinder ignition was happening as a result of the the increased and sustained temps? Sure.
I suspect the cooling fans are thermostatically controlled via a temp sensor (or multiple sensors) that not only turn on the fan, but also shutter the rear cylinder ignition.
Has Harley (factory) been made aware of the assembly issue for my bike and potentially others? A: LOUD AND CLEAR!

 

[Alberto Rinaldo]

Here's another thought...........
You can see from my other posts on a melted radiator hose, that it has caused me to look in to this issue WAY more than I intended.
The reason for my melted radiator hose was actually a combination of factors. It was not until I spoke with the tech at the dealer who worked on it, that he and I both became aware of a greater issue.........
Not only was the radiator hose melted, but installed improperly. So, after the tech actually removed the entire radiator did he find the root cause. The hose was crushed against the motor during assembly. This caused decreased flow through that hose, causing one end of it to swell when under high flow and heat.
This swelling caused the hose to warp out of shape and contact the O2 sensor in the front exhaust header. This is what led to the melting of the hose itself.
Is it possible to have restricted flow that leads to quickly rising temps? Sure.
Is it possible that the protection element of shuttering the rear cylinder ignition was happening as a result of the the increased and sustained temps? Sure.
I suspect the cooling fans are thermostatically controlled via a temp sensor (or multiple sensors) that not only turn on the fan, but also shutter the rear cylinder ignition.
Has Harley (factory) been made aware of the assembly issue for my bike and potentially others? A: LOUD AND CLEAR!

Hi @Sq51lacfd,

I shared this thought of yours with the local HD representative. Let's see if it may be enough to go for an in deep investigation and solve an issue that, I am pretty sure, is going to hit all the PanAm owners here in Cyprus over the summer.

Thank you for sharing,
Alberto

 

[Alberto Rinaldo]

Hi Guys,

after the local dealer pulled the pipe more in to gain some space between the radiator hose and the exhaust pipe, today with the external temperature of 30C (86F) the coolant temp. went up to 107C (225F). When I stopped, I checked the pipe again, quite close as it was at the very beginning :-(

We're expecting temps up to 45C (113F) and the smell of burned plastic/rubber is already here!

Alberto

 

[Terronaut]

Ok so after two weeks at the dealer, they determined that the overheating issue was caused because the FIRST dealer that worked on the bike - to shorten the radiator hose next to the header - apparently didn't bleed all the air out of the cooling system : / So now the bike seems to be running ok.

 

[Terronaut]

Alberto - same here - I had my bike looked at by another dealer and they told me that you really need to know what you are doing to bleed air out of the cooling system once drained. They refilled and bled it, and it works fine now thankfully - case closed.

 

[Alberto Rinaldo]

Hi @Terronaut, yesterday the dealer told me other PanAm, even newer than mine, have the same if not worst issues with the hose and the pipe. In some cases it looks like the two are touching.

I trust him and I am sure he will try to find a solution. FYKI, HD seems still not recognising this issue as a real one. That sucks

 

[Terronaut]

Alberto, I hope this works out for you - it seems that shortening the hose, then reattaching it, is a working solution. It is unfortunate that this wasn't taken into account during initial engineering though! Cheers -