Just bought my 2025 ST. 3 weeks now. Was wondering what all experience for "typical" engine temps. Its 90 degrees here in NC. Mine varies from 198 to as high as 230. Pretty warm. Even going 80 on the highway my temp is lucky to drop to 207. Again, was 97 yesterday. NO other temp warnings. Bike runs very well.
Normal PA 1250 engine temps
NoMoreV4
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Just bought my 2025 ST. 3 weeks now. Was wondering what all experience for "typical" engine temps. Its 90 degrees here in NC. Mine varies from 198 to as high as 230. Pretty warm. Even going 80 on the highway my temp is lucky to drop to 207. Again, was 97 yesterday. NO other temp warnings. Bike runs very well.
Thats normal.👍
Its nerve racking the 1st time she touches 230 for sure, but all is good.
I wouldn't be concerned with 230-240 while sitting in traffic or red lights as long as it goes back to 195-210 riding down the road , I removed my right side fairing and was surprised to get another quart or so in my radiator even though the resivour was full , might wanna check it 🫡
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Checking the coolant is a good Idea. Both of my Pan Americas went thru the dealer set up with the coolant reservoir empty.
I know. I've had tons of water cooled bikes in 40 years. This one seems to be the warmest. Even warmer than my BMW S1000XR. T-Stat in the PA I've heard is 193. Typically, "most" bikes are 180. Manufacturers want the higher temps to keep the catalyst hot. Last couple of bikes I bought, I had the intention NOT to modify. Getting old and tired. Still, old habits die hard.
ECU tuning is really the only way to correct this. I said I wasn't going to mod my very first Harley I bought just 10 months ago. So, the Low Rider S has a Z468 cam now, intake, header, my custom ECU tuning. It almost pulls almost as hard as my Gen II Yamaha Vmax 1700.
I don't want to void my PA warranty. I think I'm going to wait and just try my usual tricks to bring that temp down....
ECU tuning is really the only way to correct this. I said I wasn't going to mod my very first Harley I bought just 10 months ago. So, the Low Rider S has a Z468 cam now, intake, header, my custom ECU tuning. It almost pulls almost as hard as my Gen II Yamaha Vmax 1700.
I don't want to void my PA warranty. I think I'm going to wait and just try my usual tricks to bring that temp down....
I don't know what that is. Interesting.
They was air in my system. There is no way the dealer removed the bleed screws and bled the system properly. I can clearly see the UNTOUCHED paint marks. Bleeding helped. Temps stay in the 190's under light load. Cruising. 50mph. Local stuff. However, I went back on the highway and was doing 85. It was 95 degrees out. Temp stayed at about 207/208. Still higher than I would like to see. You would think all that air flow would remove that heat. Also depends were that temp sensor is located. IS it "coolant" or is it head temp. I don't know.
Something, by design, is holding that heat in. With my Slow Rider S 117, different motor of course, I deliberately fattened it up idle to 1500 so that it would run cooler and EITMS would not enable so easily. That bike was pretty lean at 3K and below. That's why that bike ran warm.
Dynojet hasn't released the bin file for 2024 and up PA. Neither has Woolich. Does anyone know if the PA ECU is Alpha N tables or VE?
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this old thread may be of help to the OP
Thanks. Pretty much the same crap..... dealer stupidity. This goes beyond Harley. Again, In 40 years of bikes, I just started buying Hardley Parkinson's about 10 months ago.
One of my previous bikes, KTM 2020 1290 SD GT, I bought very slightly used. 1100 miles. This v-Twin was wicked. It was my 3rd 1290. So, I kinda had a good understanding. Plus, I recalibrated that ECU myself. Was running hot. I recognized the issue with a day or 2 of riding. Previous owner didnt have it long enough to mess with it. Checked the coolant. Was full. Radiator and Overfill. So, I performed KTM bleeding process to make sure. Opened up the first bleeder, and it pissed air for over 5 seconds before fluid came out. Little less on the rear. After doing that, bike rarely went in the 190's.
The dealer will screw up a bike and the customer never knows. So your new bike becomes a problem child CAUSED by the dealer.
OK, let me give u another example of sheer STUPIDIY. I drove all the way from NC to WV to buy my THIRD 1700 Yamaha Vmax brand new. Was raining. I just wanted to get it on the trailer and go home. So the dealer puts it on the trailer for me. I get home, they're scratches all over the left titanium muffler. I called the dealer and he called me a freakin liar and said I did it. I took pictures in the rain before I left. I blew them up and sure enough, you can clearly see all the scratches. This gets better. I ride it once and come back home. There is oil pissen over the right scoop and running on the motor. The motor was over filled by almost a quart. Blow by in the air box. There's more. I take the faux tank cover off to install a BT charging cord. The person that "prepped" the bike couldn't figure out how to attach the pos cable thru the plastic cover. So, he took pliers and cut the plastic away until he could screw down the terminal. Also stripped one of the screws.
I had to call Yamaha California and file a complaint. The dealer woudnt even apologize. He sent me an email with a parts list of the shit that his tech screwed up and replace everything. Come to find out, it was the owner's 17 year old kid that did all the damage.
Dealers don't care about you. Just the money...
One of my previous bikes, KTM 2020 1290 SD GT, I bought very slightly used. 1100 miles. This v-Twin was wicked. It was my 3rd 1290. So, I kinda had a good understanding. Plus, I recalibrated that ECU myself. Was running hot. I recognized the issue with a day or 2 of riding. Previous owner didnt have it long enough to mess with it. Checked the coolant. Was full. Radiator and Overfill. So, I performed KTM bleeding process to make sure. Opened up the first bleeder, and it pissed air for over 5 seconds before fluid came out. Little less on the rear. After doing that, bike rarely went in the 190's.
The dealer will screw up a bike and the customer never knows. So your new bike becomes a problem child CAUSED by the dealer.
OK, let me give u another example of sheer STUPIDIY. I drove all the way from NC to WV to buy my THIRD 1700 Yamaha Vmax brand new. Was raining. I just wanted to get it on the trailer and go home. So the dealer puts it on the trailer for me. I get home, they're scratches all over the left titanium muffler. I called the dealer and he called me a freakin liar and said I did it. I took pictures in the rain before I left. I blew them up and sure enough, you can clearly see all the scratches. This gets better. I ride it once and come back home. There is oil pissen over the right scoop and running on the motor. The motor was over filled by almost a quart. Blow by in the air box. There's more. I take the faux tank cover off to install a BT charging cord. The person that "prepped" the bike couldn't figure out how to attach the pos cable thru the plastic cover. So, he took pliers and cut the plastic away until he could screw down the terminal. Also stripped one of the screws.
I had to call Yamaha California and file a complaint. The dealer woudnt even apologize. He sent me an email with a parts list of the shit that his tech screwed up and replace everything. Come to find out, it was the owner's 17 year old kid that did all the damage.
Dealers don't care about you. Just the money...
Man, I could tell 100 stories..
- Had an HD service manager get "fighting mad" at ME after I nicely, smilingly pointed out that his "after service wash crew" left soap all over my bike. I just wanted a fresh rinse.. It didn't work out well for him.
- Had a Honda sales guy walk straight away from a sales table where I was BUYING a new bike (and not come back) because Jason Aldean (country singer) walked in to pick up his new ATV. He called me THE NEXT DAY wanting me to come back. I said "sure" and never went back.
- All four windshield screws on a brand-new Gold Wing cross threaded.
- Brake fluid spilled on the fairing of a brand new KLR650, damage covered up by a dealer sticker, discovered a month later..
- Shop tech admitted to putting 120psi in a 21" tire trying to make the bead seat. (Wheel warped)
I think it's just the human condition.. Some dudes will never see a bike as a precision piece of machinery, that if it fails at highway speed could end my life. Thus damaging and forever changing my family.
I interview industrial electrical technicians pretty often. I ask them the definition of "Sonder". Bonus points if they know it. After I give them the definition, I ask them to explain what it means to them, or to give an example. You would be surprised at the number of people who cannot grasp the concept.
"Dealers don't care about you. Just the money." Extends way too far.
But I feel your pain.
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Sonder - "the profound feeling of understanding that everyone around you is living their own unique story" ? 
... and to understand that each random passerby is living a life that is as complex and involved as your own. It's about empathy and a "do unto others" state of mind.Sonder - "the profound feeling of understanding that everyone around you is living their own unique story" ?
I would never take from you, belittle you or rip you off. Because I wouldn't want you to do that to me. That doesn't mean I will allow myself to be taken advantage of. It's a warrior philosophy.
A dealer, Not caring about a customer, to enhance personal gain is what put my mind in that direction.
Maybe a bit too deep for a motorcycle forum. 🤣
Not to mention waayyy off topic. Apologies
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Interesting side bar? Yes.
Each dealer has a business philosophy that is constantly reflected in the way customers are treated from the moment they enter the store. You can instantly feel the attitude of "how can I help" versus "how can I win". I believe it was Bill Davidson, Willie G.'s Dad, that was responsible for making sure the H-D dealers knew that H-D was always there to help which contributed to the loyalty and dedication of the dealer network. There are some questionable dealers out there, but I believe the majority are exceptional. The dealer challenge is how to make sure every employee is dedicated in the same way as you describe above,
" I would never take from you, belittle you or rip you off. Because I wouldn't want you to do that to me. That doesn't mean I will allow myself to be taken advantage of. It's a warrior philosophy."
My Dad always ran his shop (cars) as a "how can I help". I think it was the most meaningful example of how to treat people I every received.
I'm done.
Back to temps. Ran 67 miles with speed 35 mph - 65 mph local / rural, OAT 66 to 68 at water temp 198 deg to 203 deg. Mine doesn't seem to vary much until OAT reaches 90+ then I run around a 205-210 water temp depending on construction stops or local traffic slowdowns. This is an unscientific observation. I think I will start to pay more attention on specifics or maybe capture some live data on the scanner.
Each dealer has a business philosophy that is constantly reflected in the way customers are treated from the moment they enter the store. You can instantly feel the attitude of "how can I help" versus "how can I win". I believe it was Bill Davidson, Willie G.'s Dad, that was responsible for making sure the H-D dealers knew that H-D was always there to help which contributed to the loyalty and dedication of the dealer network. There are some questionable dealers out there, but I believe the majority are exceptional. The dealer challenge is how to make sure every employee is dedicated in the same way as you describe above,
" I would never take from you, belittle you or rip you off. Because I wouldn't want you to do that to me. That doesn't mean I will allow myself to be taken advantage of. It's a warrior philosophy."
My Dad always ran his shop (cars) as a "how can I help". I think it was the most meaningful example of how to treat people I every received.
I'm done.
Back to temps. Ran 67 miles with speed 35 mph - 65 mph local / rural, OAT 66 to 68 at water temp 198 deg to 203 deg. Mine doesn't seem to vary much until OAT reaches 90+ then I run around a 205-210 water temp depending on construction stops or local traffic slowdowns. This is an unscientific observation. I think I will start to pay more attention on specifics or maybe capture some live data on the scanner.
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I just made a 100 miles + trip that exhibited the following temps:
Highway speed 75 mph, OAT 72 Water temp 198 deg F
Local speed 35 mph, OAT 73 Water temp 208 deg F
Highway speed 75 mph, OAT 72 Water temp 198 deg F
Local speed 35 mph, OAT 73 Water temp 208 deg F
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Just came back from a 60 mile ride. A bit colder today, 60 deg F.
Highway speed 75 mph, OAT 60, water temp 189 deg F
Local speed 35 mph, OAT 60, water temp 199 deg F
Highway speed 75 mph, OAT 60, water temp 189 deg F
Local speed 35 mph, OAT 60, water temp 199 deg F
Ride home during the Tennessee heat wave:
94 degrees F- 45 miles, 1 hour ride, 10 minutes in stop-and-go. Average stop time was 10-20 seconds with top speed not exceeding 10mph for for 10-15 minutes.
Highway speed 80 mph, OAT 98, water temp 205
Local Speed 40, OAT 94, water temp 215
Stop-and-go speed 10, OAT 101, Water temp 226
94 degrees F- 45 miles, 1 hour ride, 10 minutes in stop-and-go. Average stop time was 10-20 seconds with top speed not exceeding 10mph for for 10-15 minutes.
Highway speed 80 mph, OAT 98, water temp 205
Local Speed 40, OAT 94, water temp 215
Stop-and-go speed 10, OAT 101, Water temp 226
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Looking at these numbers it appears there is a 10 degree difference in water temp when moving, fast / slow. The benefit of air cooling across various points on the engine? And when nearly sitting still it is entirely up to the fans and radiator the differential moves up to a 20 degree difference. I realize there are many, many different variables that can impact the cooling rates. But, maybe, a general rule would be a 10 degree difference when moving and 20 if stop and go? If you see numbers greater than these a problem might be developing? Anti-freeze level, oil level, radiator fins dirty, etc, etc...
I will also add that my legs were fine during the hottest part of the ride, but I do wear tall boots.. If the upgraded HD "Tactical" belly pan was on there, it would be a different story though. Most of the big "skid plates" reflect heat back up and will make the right side pretty hot on your leg.
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