I truly believe this will be the last year of the HD Pan America as Harley really does not support this model as well as the touring models. this is very sad because the engine and engineering of this Model is incredible. I love my bike but with HD supporting its product I may go to BMW. Goodbye Willie G.
Harley is probably going to cancel future Pan Americas.
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Charlie23
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Bingo. 100%. Harley is not leaving this segment. There is money to be made and demographics are changing. No company can afford not to read changing markets. They are staying ahead of the curve. Best cruisers, why not best sports adv bike?
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If you ever expect them to support one bike to the level legacy platforms that are far larger, you’re asking way too much.
Based on the fact that it is one model, and platform, in their entire lineup I’m pretty impressed with their level of support. In addition, they continue to make small improvements every year.
As another post mentions, adding it to the CVO line only underscores their support of the bike.
Looking forward to the Pan America owners ride at Sturgis this year!
That would definitely be a beast of a bike!
Harley employee above says it ain't happening.
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CVO saving a platform? That does not pencil out. CVO has never been used for that purpose, it’s a design and tech flex. In the case of the PanAm, mostly a design flex, as the bike is outstanding to begin with!
22 PAS, 13 Dyna Wideglide, 2001 Honda XR650R, 2007 KDX 220, 1994 ATK 604 E
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1,606 Posts
When the tech was looking at my bike, we talked about that, and he said it might be a future model, maby not a "Road Glide" or "Street Glide"Harley employee above says it ain't happening.
But a cruser class with the Revmax might be in the works.
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What is HD going to use as an engine going forward in a few years when air cooled push rod engines won't be able to meet emission standards. The air cooled Sportsters were dropped in Europe before they were Cancelled in the US Because of EURO standards. I'm not even going bring up California and their requirements ( The reason you don't see a Screaming Eagle exhaust on the CVO PA ). It cost a lot of money to keep trying to get more performance out of an air cooled push rod engine. Don't get me wrong I love the sound of them and they look like a work of art to me.
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613 Posts
Buell is taking orders on a bike like that!
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46 Posts
What? The PA was a top seller and is doing better than people are leading on. This is complete BS. In fact the rumor is they will expand the line to include a smaller version. They are cutting other models. Some of you negative nellies are hilarious………
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69 Posts
The CVO Pan America won't "save" the platform, it's a canary test to see if the platform is worth saving. Shipments in HD's ADV segment (HD is public and breaks this out) are down ~75%. There's a small but reliable market for CVOs - anything more could signify increased demand for the platform at best and may buy a bit more time at worst.
Can HD "afford" to ignore the segment? Sure. What it can't afford to do, is to keep doing what's it's been doing in the segment, the numbers don't lie and being down across the board means less water under the boat to keep speculative initiatives afloat.
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Well said they are down completely across the board. I think most understand the Livewire was not a very good financial decision that surely hasn't helped. Plus go woke go broke….ask Bud. My guess layoffs and cut back production. But PA is not the reason for their woes its a far bigger picture than that. I honestly think it could be growth in certain segments but its not a total drag. Some dealers are so stuck in old Harley they wont even consider promoting the PAS. So of it dies its the dealers that caused it.
Harley has focus on attracting new customers but is run by some questionable characters with regard to knowing what the market wants. Also the BOD is not the type of people you want a motorcycle company to have guiding you.
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427 Posts
The day HD gets rid of the pushrod motor is the day HD's ship sinks.
What HD will do is stop selling them in the liberal states that push the impossible narrative that all electric is the only way to go.
There are no emissions in my state as with many other states. You guys got your panties all in a wad with all the speculations.
HD cooperate doesn't talk to the dealerships like this because of exactly this talking that is going on in this thread.
Loose lips sink ships. Nobody here knows what's going to happen with the PAS. HD has a ton invested into this bike so I like the odds.
What HD will do is stop selling them in the liberal states that push the impossible narrative that all electric is the only way to go.
There are no emissions in my state as with many other states. You guys got your panties all in a wad with all the speculations.
HD cooperate doesn't talk to the dealerships like this because of exactly this talking that is going on in this thread.
Loose lips sink ships. Nobody here knows what's going to happen with the PAS. HD has a ton invested into this bike so I like the odds.
Yes, the reason for bringing the PA to market in the first place was to attract younger buyers, and it did that quite well for the first two model years when (nearly) everyone who wanted one, bought one, but at the end of the day, with PA sales now slowing, every major vehicle manufacturer will only hold onto a vehicle program for so long (that likely hasn't sold enough units or sufficiently worked down it's warranty costs to become profitable).
The 2024 PA CVO model intro was likely released just so HD could grab some of the higher-end/profit PA sales.
The 2024 CVO MSRP is ~$8,400 more than the 2024 PAS. The decision to bring out the CVO was likely made back when PA sales were still hot (at least 12-18 months ago). HD may not have made the same decision (to bring out the CVO) after PA sales slowed more recently. Manufacturers make a nice profit off the price mark-up when adding on the "extras".
The PA Base model drop from the 2024 line-up was likely evolutionary (pun intended)--when a significantly-higher number of PA orders/purchases are the top-end PAS variety (vs. the less-expensive base model), nearly every manufacturer will dump the lower-profit, lower-volume models and stick to the higher-profit/volume models. HD did that nearly across the board on their bread and butter 2024 cruiser models as well.
The 2024 PA CVO model intro was likely released just so HD could grab some of the higher-end/profit PA sales.
The 2024 CVO MSRP is ~$8,400 more than the 2024 PAS. The decision to bring out the CVO was likely made back when PA sales were still hot (at least 12-18 months ago). HD may not have made the same decision (to bring out the CVO) after PA sales slowed more recently. Manufacturers make a nice profit off the price mark-up when adding on the "extras".
The PA Base model drop from the 2024 line-up was likely evolutionary (pun intended)--when a significantly-higher number of PA orders/purchases are the top-end PAS variety (vs. the less-expensive base model), nearly every manufacturer will dump the lower-profit, lower-volume models and stick to the higher-profit/volume models. HD did that nearly across the board on their bread and butter 2024 cruiser models as well.
Well your entitled to your opinion Go get your BMW GS After launching a CVO model this year Pretty sure HD will continue to produce the Pan America .
@roadrash83
It's unbelievable that HD has somehow managed to make the air-cooled Twin still pass 50-state emissions testing.
You are right though....as California makes passing their state emissions testing tougher and tougher, ultimately, CA will eventually kill internal combustion engine vehicle sales all together (making EV's the only sellable vehicles in CA). HD will have to do something!
California is too big of a market to just completely stop selling vehicles in. Maybe that's why HD is keeping it's Livewire alive....to have something to sell in California. They buy big-twins too. It will be very interesting to see if HD does ultimately make an EV bagger. That will certainly be the end of HD as we know it. I'm guessing that won't happen in our lifetimes though.
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I’m 66 dumped a CVO Road Glide Limited absolutely love the PAS and my story is more common than you think. All vehicular sales have slowed Biden economics high interest rates high $ bikes sit longer.
@Ramjet
I'm in a similar boat as you, except:
1. I'm not as old, but almost, and I'm retired
2. Rode large touring bikes for many years (but I'm keeping my 2017 Electra Glide)
You are right about higher interest rates slowing sales. It ain't just happening with HD motorcycles. Cars and trucks aren't moving as fast either. Prices on those are dropping as well.
I say the PA was brought to market to attract younger buyers because HD at the time said they were doing that (not my opinion, theirs), and had plans to bring out several other models to attract younger buyers around that same time, including a sport streetbike called the "Streetfighter" (that never actually made it to market). Remember that? The Livewire EV was a younger-crowd product as well. I think HD may have underestimated the appeal some of these models may have had with traditional HD buyers, but lucky for HD.....the traditional HD buyers are helping with their sales of those models.
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Yea I agree my second bike was a V-Rod but so,d it and git an African Twin I really enjoy riding these ADV bikes the AT is setup for gravel and off road. Im riding the PAS mostly back roads highway or whatever is the direction I’m traveling. So much more nimble and maneuverable I have become a huge fan and having owned the BMW ADV can say Harley got this right at least my 2023….
@Ramjet
I have a Honda Africa Twin that's set up for gravel/off-road too (2016 model). I did the MABDR and PABDRX with it the last few years (along with a few other things). I use my 2023 PAS for on-road adventures. Looks like we have more in common than what you think.
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